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GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

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Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#91

Post by mort96 »

sersi wrote: post #87
mort96 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. My computer is a tool I actively use. The TV is an almost entirely passive consumption device. Was performance not good enough when it was new? If it wasn't, will the new software versions truly buck the trend we've seen in software for the past few decades and improve performance? What new features are necessary? Video playback has been a solved problem for the past few decades.

With streaming apps unfortunately you can run in compatibility issues if you do not update. So for people using the TV for streaming, it does make sense to at least update that part of the software.

And if a streaming app stops working due to a compatibility issue, I might consider updating if it's a streaming app I use a lot. If I can update the app independent of the OS, great; if not, it might mean an OS update.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#92

Post by sersi »

newsclues wrote: post #34
p0lychromatic wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some attacks shown on the video (like the "silent" voice recording) are initiated by the people in the video manually running those commands via SSH. This is the major issue with this video: It mixes stuff done by LG (ACR) with stuff done via rooting (audio recording). And now people think LG is 24/7 recording your conversations and uploading them somewhere. This has not been proven.

Fresh account defending a corporation.

It's not a question of defending a corporation, it's that publishing a video that mixes true facts with facts that are not quite right weakens your argument and makes it easier for the corporation to control the narrative by pointing anything that's disingenuous.

And to be clear, I'm not defending LG here. Their terms and conditions are terrible, 'We know who's in the LG household… we own the glass' is not something that should be said by any appliance company and shows a clear lack of ethics. But if someone is going to make a video explaining what's happening it's better to stick to what LG is actually doing instead of listing potential issues without making it clear.

A rooted tv by definition has less security, if you show that you can record because you have full control over the device that only shows that there's no hardware block for the mic (which most devices in existence don't have, apple, Framework, pinephones are the exception there). It's not in anyway different from most phones and devices that people use in daily life.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#93

Post by sdcfgy »

p0lychromatic wrote: post #35
pmlnr wrote: post #24

> If you root or jailbreak your devices, you've, by their very nature, broken their security. Wow. Please stop spreading things like this. Not having root means not owning a device you paid for and have in your home.

I know people here do not want to hear it, but it is a very two-sided sword. Of course root allows you to tinker with your device and make it run what you want, but: - Rooted devices make devices unpredictable. As shown in the video: How do you trust that your hotel/AirBnB is not using root on _their_ TV to use its microphone to spy on you? Or actually records your video output (instead of "just" ACRing it)? - Re-sel…

All of those things are: you don’t.

If it’s a problem, unplug it.

If it’s a problem, don’t buy it.

Works for everything!

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#95

Post by p0lychromatic »

sersi wrote: post #90
p0lychromatic wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many rooted devices display during boot a warning that they have been rooted. Usually, this happens after a bootloader unlock because then verified boot is disabled. You can still have a rooted device and not break verified, resulting in no warning. See: jailbroken iPhones. I wouldn't say it's a solved problem. Just have to find an exploit that works with verified / attested boot. And device manufactures are gettin…

> I wouldn't say it's a solved problem. Just have to find an exploit that works with verified / attested boot In general though on devices that are rootable, white-hat hackers are more inclined to responsibly disclose vulnerabilities instead of releasing them as a way to root said device. So having a rootable phone does increase security. What doesn't increase security is when bank apps that are essential to daily li…

The thing is, the whole topic is not fully binary. I agree with you that having a rootable phone does increase security in certain ways.

> What doesn't increase security is when bank apps that are essential to daily life start detecting that a device has been rooted and force a lot of people into using closed source extensions to hide the fact that the devices is rooted.

I'll ask naively: Why not? I can come up with a bunch of arguments why it does help the bank and why it might reduce the risk of certain attacks.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#96

Post by rcxdude »

p0lychromatic wrote: post #81
rcxdude wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This control-freak nature of manufacturers is sadly what makes me cheer for the security holes much of the time.

Yet here we are, in this thread, discussing why LG is spying on us. While some stuff are legit issues such as ADR, people now think they are wire-tapping. Because somebody used a rooted device to show-case recording silently through their device. Can you blame corporations having this control-freak nature when shit like this happens? It's stuff like this that likely pushes corporations now to invest more into device…

The solution to misleading reports about your software isn't more opacity, though, quite the opposite. If they were transparent about what they were doing then there would be much less room for speculation and misleading reports.

(And yeah, as pointed out by another comment, if you officially allow users full control of their devices, you are less likely to have people sitting on undisclosed exploits so that they can get it without your help, and as a bonus you have an easier argument for why you are not liable for what someone does with that control)

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#97

Post by cassianoleal »

drbscl wrote: post #54
adithyassekhar wrote: post #20

I think the author took the wrong message from the video. His arguments are all - yes everyone does this not just lg; :) - yes it can be used to track the user; but unless you literally go into lg ads hq, you can’t say they don’t - they rooted to trigger this; well the os and system apps don’t need root, we need it to observe. If the author is here please consider these as the reasons to why an LG customer would be m…

Yes, as the owner of an LG OLED, I paid a premium for a good quality panel, and expect it to be mine. Also, I anticipated ads on a smart TV (unfortunately it's inevitable), but (wrongly) assumed that such invasive tracking and "we own the glass" would be a bar too low even for the budget manufacturers. I'm never buying any LG product ever again.

I have an LG OLED as well. When I bought it, it was the previous year's flagship. I am also mad at this.

I also had an LG washing machine. The dispenser plastic drawer broke after a year of use. After over a week of multiple emails and calls with the shop, LG themselves and third-party spares shops trying to get a replacement, I bought a Bosch.

I am also never buying anything from LG again.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#98

Post by pmlnr »

p0lychromatic wrote: post #35
pmlnr wrote: post #24

> If you root or jailbreak your devices, you've, by their very nature, broken their security. Wow. Please stop spreading things like this. Not having root means not owning a device you paid for and have in your home.

I know people here do not want to hear it, but it is a very two-sided sword. Of course root allows you to tinker with your device and make it run what you want, but: - Rooted devices make devices unpredictable. As shown in the video: How do you trust that your hotel/AirBnB is not using root on _their_ TV to use its microphone to spy on you? Or actually records your video output (instead of "just" ACRing it)? - Re-sel…

> Rooted devices make devices unpredictable.

you/we/me not having root while, for example, Google Play Services does on invalidates everything you said.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#99

Post by croon »

drbscl wrote: post #54
adithyassekhar wrote: post #20

I think the author took the wrong message from the video. His arguments are all - yes everyone does this not just lg; :) - yes it can be used to track the user; but unless you literally go into lg ads hq, you can’t say they don’t - they rooted to trigger this; well the os and system apps don’t need root, we need it to observe. If the author is here please consider these as the reasons to why an LG customer would be m…

Yes, as the owner of an LG OLED, I paid a premium for a good quality panel, and expect it to be mine. Also, I anticipated ads on a smart TV (unfortunately it's inevitable), but (wrongly) assumed that such invasive tracking and "we own the glass" would be a bar too low even for the budget manufacturers. I'm never buying any LG product ever again.

I own an LG TV as well, and while I assume the Mi TV Box 4K tracks me instead, at least it's unpowered while the TV is off, and the TV itself is not connected to my network. I have updated TVs/soundbars/etc, but only through USB. When they remove that option is the day I stop being a customer, moving to one that still does.

Better yet would be never needing an update, but alas.

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