Live data from Hacker News

Every novel is boring until it isn't

publicbooks.org

51–60 of 80 posts

Re: Every novel is boring until it isn't

#51
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah same. I recently read the whole series to my son after he had begged me to stop after a couple of pages about 2 years ago. I told him: just keep your mind open for 100 pages. The start is so cold, and weird. You can only feel the warmth and beauty that is coming on your second read, and part 1 takes some time to pay-off. What I like about Harry Potter is that many things are not what they seem when later looking…

I've got the opposite problem with "Infinite Jest". I have had a hundred pages left for several years. I just need to sit down and soldier through those to say that I have read the bloody thing. It did not grip me.

I’ve had that as well haha. I have read many books for about 50%. I try not to feel guilty about it. Glass half full, right?

Re: Every novel is boring until it isn't

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! The opening line of Pride and Prejudice alone is already immediately captivating. And then makes you re-read it again, after you finish the book and it suddenly shines differently. I feel enormously fortunate for being fluent in Russian, reading Bulgakov and Tolstoy in original is pure joy, any translation removes subtleties - it's like listening to Bach through the car stereo, you still can enjoy it, but it won…

>I feel enormously fortunate for being fluent in Russian, reading Bulgakov and Tolstoy in original is pure joy, any translation removes subtleties As a native Russian speaker, I find it easier to experience their writings in English (and I don't feel anything of importance has been lost). And I've also heard other russian speakers claim that English prose (i.e. Shakespeare) is too dry, so I'm assuming this all comes…

> easier to experience their writings in English

I suppose, it may feel easier, because English can be dense, it can feel more compact. Of course, it has this chameleonic ability to implode into scholarly dry, sophisticated and complex language, but yes, when I need more informational throughput, English usually outshines other alternatives - it delivers the point from the page directly into your brain. Although with prose, often it's not the sheer throughput but small subtleties that matter - we read not just for the sake of the fast comprehension of the story. How would you paint the difference between 'сухарь' and 'сухарик' in Russian text, especially if the words are used metaphorically? Of course it is all very subjective - I can only imagine what emotions evoke the arrangement of words I choose to put in this text - they could make you angry or sad, or bring smile or utter indifference. I've read Bulgakov in four different languages, and yet translations never matched pictures the original elicits in my head. "В белом плаще с кровавым подбоем, шаркающей кавалерийской походкой, ранним утром четырнадцатого числа весеннего месяца нисана ..." simply can't be done in another language for me - it just never feels the same.

Shakespeare is dry in English and feels easier in Russian translation because there's such a thing as "archaic English". The Russian language, in comparison, has changed little over the past few hundred years.

Re: Every novel is boring until it isn't

#53
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! The opening line of Pride and Prejudice alone is already immediately captivating. And then makes you re-read it again, after you finish the book and it suddenly shines differently. I feel enormously fortunate for being fluent in Russian, reading Bulgakov and Tolstoy in original is pure joy, any translation removes subtleties - it's like listening to Bach through the car stereo, you still can enjoy it, but it won…

>it's like listening to Bach through the car stereo Bach sounds great even as chiptunes. The artistic value is mostly in the harmonic development, not the timbre, so sound quality isn't so important. The organ works will suffer a bit without a big subwoofer, but you can get that in a car. Bach composed a lot of his works on a clavichord. A better example would be a composer like Mahler.

I'm not a musician, I suppose I should have picked a better analogy. Now I'm listening to Mahler and trying to find enlightenment. Thankfully, my desk audio setup is better than my car's.

Re: Every novel is boring until it isn't

#54

If you want to tell reading-skeptical kids about "the volta", please don't phrase it as "the volta". Just say that a lot of good novels need you to read them for a bit to see what's going on, and then it will get good. They might already be familiar with the idea from TV shows. But also, it's extremely possible to write a novel that grabs you from the first page. Thriller writers are the most obvious case. A gripping…

Furthermore - there are more than enough novels that grip you immediately, to spend your whole life reading them and avoiding the rest. "The rest" tend to come in two categories. Books I lack some experience for to be gripped by - which I may come back to in future. And bad books - which I will not. YOLO.

To be clear, I am in favor of giving books time to grab you. Long-term, this will give you more and deeper enjoyment. Some genuinely life-changing books really do need that time to get you up to speed. They're worth it.

Re: Every novel is boring until it isn't

#55
I hate that it seems the only authors I can really dig into fiction-wise is PKD and Douglas Adams. Something about their fast paced style, loose/weird tech, psychedelic, not too serious (well PKD still has some definite seriousness; but not expressed in a serious way).

I think this might be an indicator of adhd-ness. That these things grab me instantly because either I know something (usually) interesting is coming. The only PKD I've read that I've actively disliked was Timothy Archer which is comparatively tame, and nothing really comes of it compared to VALIS or Three Stigmata or Divine Invasion for example.

I've had other authors recommended based on this, but none of them really grip me the way they do. :( Maybe I just need to stick with it, like the author says - it eventually gets good. It's really hard these days as my attention span is worse than I was when I was even in my 20s (all those years ago).

Re: Every novel is boring until it isn't

#56

I'd argue that the novels the TFA author reads are boring to the TFA author -- until they're not. If you are reading a novel that works for you, it's often not boring from the opening line. Example: Anna Karenina. Gripping from the opening line (if you like the type of novel that it is; and it's fine if you don't, of course). Or alternatively, Pride and Prejudice. Again, that opener just sucks you in (if this is a bo…

Not putting any action in the first 10% of my first novel was a big mistake, the reason is a lot of people these days "Read a Sample" and if they are not hooked then they just go to the next. Yes, the book may have ended with civilizations rising and falling but it started with a couple of uni students making a startup.

Re: Every novel is boring until it isn't

#57

If you want to tell reading-skeptical kids about "the volta", please don't phrase it as "the volta". Just say that a lot of good novels need you to read them for a bit to see what's going on, and then it will get good. They might already be familiar with the idea from TV shows. But also, it's extremely possible to write a novel that grabs you from the first page. Thriller writers are the most obvious case. A gripping…

Yep. A lot of thriller and mystery can get you on the first couple of pages. My now (probably all time) favorite book, Anathem by Neal Stephenson, took me three times to really get into. It started with a ton of exposition... and I guess the first few times I read it I didn't care too much for it. It was well worth the read though.

Re: Every novel is boring until it isn't

#58
"Many years later, as he faced the firing squad, Colonel Aureliano Buendía was to remember that distant afternoon when his father took him to discover ice.

At that time Macondo was a village of twenty adobe houses, built on the bank of a river of clear water that ran along a bed of polished stones, which were white and enormous, like prehistoric eggs. The world was so recent that many things lacked names, and in order to indicate them it was necessary to point. Every year during the month of March a family of ragged gypsies would set up their tents near the village, and with a great uproar of pipes and kettledrums they would..."

Re: Every novel is boring until it isn't

#60

William Gibson is one of my favorite writers, and it's funny because I think he has the exact opposite problem. Most of his novels open on the action, in some interesting location. But gradually they get weaker, with a few (Mona Lisa Overdrive, in my case) becoming a real slog to finish. I've probably read the first 50 pages of Neuromancer 20 times, but only the entire novel 3-4 times in 20+ years. There's the famous…

Gibson is one of those writers who are much better prose stylists than plotters.

I enjoy reading his prose immensely, but he's been stamping out books with the same template for ever: an expert is hired to do something. Turns out there's a man with unlimited cash flow funding everything, but was hiding his true intentions (usually in order to lay a trap), which are revealed, and then some McGuffin is saved or eliminated or whatever; meanwhile, the main character mostly didn't do anything, just a passive spectator to some plot unfolding around them. The one I will forgive most easily here is Count Zero, which I think is much better than its reputation (except for the Haitian voodoo deity stuff, which didn't land for me); while the template is the same, the ruse connects well with Neuromancer, and it's just a fun, action-filled book that is definitely not boring. (The ruse in The Peripheral, by comparison, was deeply unsatisfying. Agency was junk, most of the book describing preparations for a military attack while the main character sleeps. Even the prose was much worse and much sloppier than usual.)

What's interesting is that his early short stories are much more original, I think. Burning Chrome, New Rose Hotel, and Johnny Mnemonic, for example, show flashes of originality that maybe Gibson wasn't able to keep up when plotting out whole novels.

Post reply on HN