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216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

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Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#561

Post by Cider9986 »

recurseP wrote: post #209
Anoian wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respect for the consumer has long been gone generally except for a few brands. I am still wondering why consumer respecting brands are not emerging more and thriving.

The point is: which brands still respect user privacy? If I were to buy a new TV today, which brands-models should I prioritize? Also, are there brands-models that in which it is possible to sideload a different OS like with mobile phones (LineageOS, GrapheneOS, etc.)

An Apple TV would be the best for privacy you can easily use but not perfect. Don't use streaming services. Torrenting with a VPN would share the least data but Nuvio/Stremio wouldn't share much with adtech. Can't use those on an Apple TV without sideloading :(

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#562

Post by Cider9986 »

boelboel wrote: post #446
Anoian wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respect for the consumer has long been gone generally except for a few brands. I am still wondering why consumer respecting brands are not emerging more and thriving.

The bottom of the line TVs are basically commoditized and are sold at a loss. There's few tv manufacturers and they mostly compete on price, only the top of the line models have pricing power and only for 6-24 months for new models. A supermajority of consumers don't care if they're tracked all the time and a large fraction don't mind ads everywhere either (they're used to it). A new display plant costs multiple bill…

They would care if they understood it. They shouldn't have to care–they deserve consumer protection regardless.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#564

Post by computably »

sbarre wrote: post #559
rpdillon wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a similar reaction from folks when I don't trust services/devices. Most telling moment was when I refused to upload my license to LinkedIn because I lost 2FA (token on phone, phone destroyed). Microsoft assured me they would "delete the license as soon as it was verified". I've written too many software systems for too many companies, and I do not believe them . Of course, they'd outsourced to AU10TIX, which d…

> my conclusion after dealing with them for many years is they will lie, cheat, and steal to get whatever they want Honestly, it's not even that extreme in most cases. I think it's usually not malice, it's incompetence. That's why I don't trust big companies with my data. Nothing to do with some CEO's evil plans, but more to do with the hundreds/thousands of mid-level "not my job" or "doing my best" workers who are a…

> Nothing to do with some CEO's evil plans, but more to do with the hundreds/thousands of mid-level "not my job" or "doing my best" workers who are actually in charge of handling my data.

The CEO is responsible for what their company does. If a major breach can occur through the oversight or "incompetence" of one worker, the CEO has already failed, whether through negligence or malice.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#565

Post by jeffbee »

mey wrote: post #539
ticulatedspline wrote: post #525

I'm surprised this hasn't run afoul of all-party wiretap laws. Even if you could waive your own rights via ToS other people in the house may not have agreed. Theoretically I could see LG or even the TV's owner being culpable. I'd love to see that case hit the media. Average citizen jailed over wiretap violations because they let their TV record a guest.

How do guests/children/people in public spaces consent to it? It's a gross violation.

Of what? This can only be evaluated in the context of wherever you live. In most of America recording sounds "in public" is a broadly protected activity because that's what "in public" means. You can only get in trouble for this if you violate another person's reasonable expectation of privacy.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#566

Post by ptx »

II2II wrote: post #554
ptx wrote: post #545

I don't think the title ( edit: of the thread merged into this one! ) is accurate. Starting at 16:04, they say that they merely claim that the TV has the capability to be used as a listening device. In the first 34 minutes, they don't seem to show that LG are actually recording audio from the surroundings (only from the content playing) and after that they start investigating whether you could record audio if you tak…

EDIT: Just to be clear, the parent's post was originally made in relation to an article/thread called: "LG smart TVs caught logging audio with screen off and snooping on local devices". My response was written at the same time. > So the video doesn't seem to support the claim in the article that "LG smart TVs continuously [...] log microphone audio while appearing to be turned off". While it is a bit unclear as to wh…

As far as I can tell, all the recording, storing and transmitting of audio from the microphone happens after 34 minutes in, after the point where they start hacking the TV and telling it themselves to do these things.

LG's advertising features appear (from what they discover before 34 minutes in and from the clips of the LG execs boasting about their ad platform) to be concerned only with what's played on the TV (and networks, devices, ..., but not microphone audio).

If I'm wrong about this, I would appreciate a timestamp for where in the video they show LG actually storing and transmitting audio recorded from the microphone.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#567

Post by jeffbee »

t1234s wrote: post #563

These are great if you just want an old fashioned tv that is just a monitor: https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.htm... With no real influx of 8K tvs one of these will last quite a while until you need to upgrade.

The tradeoff is picture quality. Those panels are dumb and also bad. That's one of the main problems with the marketplace. The best displays are tied to some shady practices like the one in the OP.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#568

Post by sixothree »

ptx wrote: post #545

I don't think the title ( edit: of the thread merged into this one! ) is accurate. Starting at 16:04, they say that they merely claim that the TV has the capability to be used as a listening device. In the first 34 minutes, they don't seem to show that LG are actually recording audio from the surroundings (only from the content playing) and after that they start investigating whether you could record audio if you tak…

I think this video is completely misleading about what LG does, versus what the TV is capable of doing. I tried watching this yesterday and was pretty offended by the lack of clarity and closed it.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#569

Post by jeffbee »

ptx wrote: post #566
II2II wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: Just to be clear, the parent's post was originally made in relation to an article/thread called: "LG smart TVs caught logging audio with screen off and snooping on local devices". My response was written at the same time. > So the video doesn't seem to support the claim in the article that "LG smart TVs continuously [...] log microphone audio while appearing to be turned off". While it is a bit unclear as to wh…

As far as I can tell, all the recording, storing and transmitting of audio from the microphone happens after 34 minutes in, after the point where they start hacking the TV and telling it themselves to do these things. LG's advertising features appear (from what they discover before 34 minutes in and from the clips of the LG execs boasting about their ad platform) to be concerned only with what's played on the TV (and…

It's a shame that the only critical evaluation of the OP is buried this far down the page, under all the "this is basically the Stasi" fluff. I wish there was something richer than up/down voting to indicate posts that contribute to the debate.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#570

Post by nobody9999 »

dylan604 wrote: post #346
Angostura wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine is still attached to the network, but I’ve turned off all the ad/customisation &AI stuff. Seems to work fine, no ads etc. though usually I’m using it simply as a screen for the AppleTV. I do have it isolated from other devices on my network, though.

If you're only using it as a screen for the AppleTV, why connect it to the network at all?

>If you're only using it as a screen for the AppleTV, why connect it to the network at all?

Not GP, but I do so to make sure my TV doesn't try to connect to a different network. I provide specific IP addresses to the ethernet-connected interface and then block those IP addresses.

I suppose I could also move the TV to an isolated VLAN, but I spent months (the device was purchased nearly, or perhaps even more than, a decade ago) monitoring network traffic to determine to where (via DNS queries and packet captures) my TV was trying to phone home and blocked all egress for the TV and ingress from the sites/IP addresses to which the TV tried to connect.

I suppose that newer TVs might be sneakier (with the kind of WiFi surfing mentioned in TFA and/or installing cellular modems) in their attempts to bypass user control and when I need a new TV, I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

But for now, my TV can't phone home. Or I'd have thrown it away years ago.

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