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216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

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Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#541

Post by godelski »

ticulatedspline wrote: post #525

I'm surprised this hasn't run afoul of all-party wiretap laws. Even if you could waive your own rights via ToS other people in the house may not have agreed. Theoretically I could see LG or even the TV's owner being culpable. I'd love to see that case hit the media. Average citizen jailed over wiretap violations because they let their TV record a guest.

On top of that, the first few minutes of the video suggests it captures your neighbors' device and IP information.

I'm sure the ToS has some BS about you being required to inform any guests, but what if your TV is just recording your neighbors because they are close enough?

Just wait, I'm sure the "solution" will be that TVs start displaying reminders that you're being recorded...

Is our inability to innovate in technology really so bad that we have to just chase more and more spying? Consumers don't want these things. Why can't we innovate on things that consumers actually want? Remember, there was a time where we could build good technology, tech that people wanted, and make buckets of money doing it. That should be our goal, not some cyberpunk dystopia. Honestly it feels like anytime we try to innovate now some manager says "don't make things complicated" or some other dumb excuse, but maybe worse is that peers (other engineers) say "but what's the value" (they always stress that they mean monetary, not utility)? Feels like monkeys attacking each other for trying to get the banana...

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#542

Post by EA-3167 »

rpdillon wrote: post #399
korzinka wrote: post #107

I've bought an LG Smart TV 5 years ago, read t&c where I was supposed to grant them any data they wanted, decided to disagree and kept all network functions disabled. I was ridiculed by my friends for that. At some point, I thought - maybe I'm really crazy to do so? Who am I, a caveman, a luddite? Oh well, I'm not. Not a bad tv though, many HDMI ports!

I have a similar reaction from folks when I don't trust services/devices. Most telling moment was when I refused to upload my license to LinkedIn because I lost 2FA (token on phone, phone destroyed). Microsoft assured me they would "delete the license as soon as it was verified". I've written too many software systems for too many companies, and I do not believe them . Of course, they'd outsourced to AU10TIX, which d…

Same here when they find out I’ve never had an FB/IG/X etc account. As though having that crap in your life is somehow mandatory.

People who make poor choices love to pretend that they had no choice at all.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#543

Post by asnelt »

skerit wrote: post #326
Sophira wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, you're not crazy. I'm also someone who actually reads terms documents, because I find that they're often the only thing that will be truthful about a company's intentions. And keeping it completely disconnected from the internet should be the default, in my opinion.

I never understood why any of the smartness had to be built into the TV in the first place. Sure, it's useful for the first year, and then the seriously underpowered hardware they installed into it will have trouble with just about anything. I bought a Philips Ambilight OLED TV probably over 8 years now. Brilliant tv, great quality, I still see no reason to replace it at all. But its built in AndroidTV is garbage.

I hear you. This is exactly the reason why I have a digital signage display rather than a Smart TV.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#545

Post by ptx »

I don't think the title (edit: of the thread merged into this one!) is accurate.

Starting at 16:04, they say that they merely claim that the TV has the capability to be used as a listening device. In the first 34 minutes, they don't seem to show that LG are actually recording audio from the surroundings (only from the content playing) and after that they start investigating whether you could record audio if you take control of the device (obviously yes).

So the video doesn't seem to support the claim in the article (edit: linked in the merged submission!) that "LG smart TVs continuously [...] log microphone audio while appearing to be turned off".

Of course, all the stuff LG are actually shown to be doing is bad nevertheless, particularly the "Automated Content Recognition".

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#546

Post by joquarky »

rpdillon wrote: post #399
korzinka wrote: post #107

I've bought an LG Smart TV 5 years ago, read t&c where I was supposed to grant them any data they wanted, decided to disagree and kept all network functions disabled. I was ridiculed by my friends for that. At some point, I thought - maybe I'm really crazy to do so? Who am I, a caveman, a luddite? Oh well, I'm not. Not a bad tv though, many HDMI ports!

I have a similar reaction from folks when I don't trust services/devices. Most telling moment was when I refused to upload my license to LinkedIn because I lost 2FA (token on phone, phone destroyed). Microsoft assured me they would "delete the license as soon as it was verified". I've written too many software systems for too many companies, and I do not believe them . Of course, they'd outsourced to AU10TIX, which d…

When are the victims going to start getting significantly compensated for these breaches?

They will keep happening as long as the consequences are just the cost of doing business.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#547

Post by kwarcode »

c22 wrote: post #454
sandworm101 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which doesnt work. LG tvs will scan for availible networks. Someone setting up a new router within range briefly disables encryption and "your" tv will jump on that network and transmit all the stored data. It is tinfoil hats time, at least for LG tvs.

Give it a network, but don't allow that network to access the internet.

If it can't phone home, it's not connected.

A technical solution would presumably spoof the spaff but with E2EE and DoH is it possible? So then what, hacking firmware? I guess then TVs get a hard lifespan limit.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#548

Post by joquarky »

dataflow wrote: post #448
jandrese wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you didn't allow it on your local WiFi doesn't mean it did not connect to the Internet. Your neighbors might have a guest WiFi it can use. Or maybe it has a built-in cell modem. Your data is valuable, there's reason to put effort into getting it.

Wouldn't using a neighbor's Wi-Fi without anyone's permission or instruction violate CFAA or some other law? Also, wouldn't this be trivial to test by just setting up your own network and seeing if the TV connects?

Laws aren't enforced against large companies.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#549

Post by georgemcbay »

DaSHacka wrote: post #289
imglorp wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely no reason to read those contracts any more. As Louis Rossman keeps pointing out, most of them now include the ability for them to change terms at any time. That's basically the null contract. Since the legal system has once again failed to protect users from corporations, it's up to users to use technical means for self defense.

At the very least, you can be sure they'll never change the terms of the agreement to be more beneficial for you, though. So just treat it as a best case scenario, knowing that it can get even worse.

At this point every EULA or TOS change should begin with the heading:

We Are Altering The Deal. Pray We Don't Alter It Any Further

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#550

Post by dcdc123 »

korzinka wrote: post #107

I've bought an LG Smart TV 5 years ago, read t&c where I was supposed to grant them any data they wanted, decided to disagree and kept all network functions disabled. I was ridiculed by my friends for that. At some point, I thought - maybe I'm really crazy to do so? Who am I, a caveman, a luddite? Oh well, I'm not. Not a bad tv though, many HDMI ports!

I have an LG C5 OLED and do not give it internet access. It does not nag, every non-internet feature works fine, the interface is clean, and my Apple TV works just fine.
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