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Programming is Art

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Re: Programming is Art

#91

Post by theorchid »

dmitrijbelikov wrote: post #89
theorchid wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So where's the contradiction? For many people, programming is art. They enjoy writing code. I'm just not one of those people. For me, programming is a way to make money and build projects.

Topic title: Programming is Art > for me, programming isn't art or a hobby > make money Do you mean their seal?

But the article isn't titled "Programming is art for me", is it?

And the article clearly stated that I belong to the type of people for whom programming is a way to make money. It went on to say that there is another type of person for whom programming is an art.

Re: Programming is Art

#92

Post by Martin_Silenus »

Well, my way of thinking about it is basically that I did not spend my life shiting on over-engineered-bloated-Golberg-machine source code written by so-called programmers to finish my life asking agents to generate these same stuff 10x faster.

I love code, you don't, fine. So be it.

Re: Programming is Art

#93

Post by LtWorf »

xeyownt wrote: post #11

Why are people mixing everything up? Since when code has a soul? AI can be just a tool. You use it the same way you use a keyboard, a computer, a pencil, etc. I'm pretty sure you can build art with it, much like using any tool. People are making art with ascii. You can do art with anything. But AI can also be much more than a tool, and why can't it have a soul? What's a soul anyway, except something that humans are m…

> Since when code has a soul?

Before AI I could look at a function and tell you who had written it from inside the (somewhat small) company I worked at.

Re: Programming is Art

#94

Post by dmitrijbelikov »

theorchid wrote: post #91
dmitrijbelikov wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Topic title: Programming is Art > for me, programming isn't art or a hobby > make money Do you mean their seal?

But the article isn't titled "Programming is art for me", is it? And the article clearly stated that I belong to the type of people for whom programming is a way to make money. It went on to say that there is another type of person for whom programming is an art.

Yes, but you have sentences started with "I ..." about 47 times. So i decided that you wrote about yourself.

I don't understand the take about "programming is a way to make money". Programs cannot pay to you.

I think you should clarify what you're talking about: art, programming, or money. Because these are three different systems.

If you talk about money show me the numbers. If talk about code show me the code. If you talk about art show me the art.

Re: Programming is Art

#95

Post by fenomas »

noduerme wrote: post #18
xeyownt wrote: post #11

Why are people mixing everything up? Since when code has a soul? AI can be just a tool. You use it the same way you use a keyboard, a computer, a pencil, etc. I'm pretty sure you can build art with it, much like using any tool. People are making art with ascii. You can do art with anything. But AI can also be much more than a tool, and why can't it have a soul? What's a soul anyway, except something that humans are m…

If you don't know what a soul is, and you think it's something people just make up, then you are missing out on the experience of being human and you have a bigger problem than not being able to understand what art is.

When you find yourself with a choice between "either this person doesn't understand the experience of being human or I'm not following what they mean" the latter is probably a sound choice.

Re: Programming is Art

#96

Post by CorvusCrypto »

jstimpfle wrote: post #28
comrade1234 wrote: post #10

I never liked the idea that programming is an art. When there's a problem that you're trying to solve there's usually only one or two good ways to solve it and hopefully you know one of those approaches. When you start getting creative is when you start running into long-term problems, especially maintenance. It's like chess. When you're an amateur you think your moves out, strategize, think that you're a genius for…

I believe there are many top level chess masters that consider chess an art. Same for programmers, to many of the best, it is an art form or at least a craft that they take very seriously. And many would disagree that programming is solved. "Boring and standard" can be a sign of quality, but it also applies to those code bases that don't solve any interesting problems and just drown in boilerplate, kept alive by doze…

"Russian schoolboy chess" as Bobby Fisher would have called it, and while he detested this style of approach, it is far closer to how chess is played, where the moves come from rigorous analysis and application of engine discovery than by the beauty of the game (which is ofc why there is Fisher-chess because he felt it kept the artistic side)

Re: Programming is Art

#97

Post by someguynamedq »

noduerme wrote: post #18
xeyownt wrote: post #11

Why are people mixing everything up? Since when code has a soul? AI can be just a tool. You use it the same way you use a keyboard, a computer, a pencil, etc. I'm pretty sure you can build art with it, much like using any tool. People are making art with ascii. You can do art with anything. But AI can also be much more than a tool, and why can't it have a soul? What's a soul anyway, except something that humans are m…

If you don't know what a soul is, and you think it's something people just make up, then you are missing out on the experience of being human and you have a bigger problem than not being able to understand what art is.

You have no more authority than the person you're responding to.

Re: Programming is Art

#98

Post by mrloba »

cowanon77 wrote: post #47

I used to really enjoy writing code, to the point where I would have thought of it as art and fine contemplation. 25 years of corporate development beat that enjoyment out of me. AI is just the final nail in the coffin. I have no enjoyment left in coding; I firmly believe the current crop of programming languages will go in the same vein as human written assembly language did. I don't believe the current LLM-based AI…

If AI replaces programming it will indirectly replace a lot of other jobs as well, just by good ol' automation

Re: Programming is Art

#99

Post by bigupthewhole »

Martin_Silenus wrote: post #92

Well, my way of thinking about it is basically that I did not spend my life shiting on over-engineered-bloated-Golberg-machine source code written by so-called programmers to finish my life asking agents to generate these same stuff 10x faster. I love code, you don't, fine. So be it.

While this was true 1+ years ago, the agents don't write bad code anymore. They might not write according to your preferences, but you can also have it adjust to your style.

Also, humans didn't evolve to write or read code, even the best programmers are terrible at it from an objective point of view, if we compare it to what is theoretically possible.

Re: Programming is Art

#100

Post by zabzonk »

bob1029 wrote: post #26

System design and architecture are the art. Programming is a set of techniques useful in realizing these compositions. I've never once in my life looked at a piece of code and thought "I am in the presence of god". However, the systems composed by code can often elicit this response.

Thinking "I am in the presence of Satan" is quite common, though.
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