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Babylonian Lamb Stew with Beets (1750–1730 BCE)

babylonian-collection.yale.edu

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Re: Babylonian Lamb Stew with Beets (1750–1730 BCE)

#91

Post by suddenlybananas »

thelibrarian wrote: post #82
dotancohen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recorded English-language etymology for "ketchup" suggests that the word comes from one of the Chinese dialect's word for tomato. Do you have any idea which Chinese word sounds like ketchup?

My personal theory based on nothing more than the vibe of the thing is that it comes from the Malay/Indonesian word ‘kecap’ (which is pronounced almost identically to “ketchup”), the word for sweet soy sauce. This is soy sauce that is thickened and sweetened with palm sugar, and I could see European cooks attempting to replicate it based on the vague descriptions given by sailors, and ending up with ketchup.

It came from the Malay word, but the Malay word comes from Hokkien.

Re: Babylonian Lamb Stew with Beets (1750–1730 BCE)

#92

Post by rahulmax »

gyanchawdhary wrote: post #90
dvh wrote: post #16

Apparently their beets looked the same as ours: > The kind of beets used in such an ancient recipe should not be different from the beets we use today, even in name. We read in Dictionary of Assyrian Botany (by Campbell Thompson, 1948) that in the ancient Mesopotamian region it was called ‘shumundar,’ it was as red as blood, and has a spinning-top shape (pp. 49, 51).

Intresting. In Hindi/urdu it’s called “chukandar”

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Re: Babylonian Lamb Stew with Beets (1750–1730 BCE)

#93

Post by bitwize »

amir_karbasi wrote: post #30
alephnerd wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recipe is also similar to Hamedh [0], a delicacy in Iraqi and Baghdadi Jewish households. The only major difference is the addition of tomatoes thanks to the Columbian Exchange, and rice - which would have not been cultivated or traded in West Asia yet. On that note, in Arabic, Farsi, and Hindustani the word for Tomato is essentially shared ( tumatar / tamatimu ) with the English word "tomato". But anyhow, a lot…

Actually, in Persian, tomato is literally translated as “western plum”. This is common in our language as we usually say “western” or “foreign” as a prefix to many things that were introduced to Iran (strawberries, sit-style toilets, etc)

There is a bird native to the Americas which in English is called the turkey, from its original name "Turkey fowl", because it was thought to come from "the east" of which Türkiye is the country with which most Europeans were familiar (due to being the closest). In Turkish, the bird's name references India ("hindi"); the same is true of other languages such as French ("dinde", from "poule d'inde", chicken of India).

Re: Babylonian Lamb Stew with Beets (1750–1730 BCE)

#94

Post by thaumasiotes »

fsloth wrote: post #70
thaumasiotes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's any consolation, their lambs were nothing like ours. This period is early enough that sheep weren't yet sheared.

Oh! So were sheep just for meat back then?

No, the sheep were harvested for wool, but not by shearing. When they shed, we picked the shed wool from them.

Modern sheep grow their wool continuously, but that took a while to breed in.

Re: Babylonian Lamb Stew with Beets (1750–1730 BCE)

#95

Post by dyauspitr »

hulitu wrote: post #69
dyauspitr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lamb is usually the red meat of choice, other than pork, almost everywhere besides the US.

You should visit Europe.

I was there for two months a month ago. Is it a lot of beef? I couldn’t really tell I remember a lot of pork and fish and chicken.

Re: Babylonian Lamb Stew with Beets (1750–1730 BCE)

#96

Post by globular-toast »

tensor wrote: post #63
dyauspitr wrote: post #53

I mean, this had to be a dish for royalty or something right? How on earth that they have all of those fresh and dried ingredients on hand 4000 years ago.

No, it's common. People today have no idea how truly poor they eat. Modern fast food is essentially fake food paste.

Which is a shame because you can eat so well today you can easily skip the dead animal carcass. They couldn't really do that back then in many places with short growing seasons.

Re: Babylonian Lamb Stew with Beets (1750–1730 BCE)

#99

Post by dyauspitr »

globular-toast wrote: post #96
tensor wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's common. People today have no idea how truly poor they eat. Modern fast food is essentially fake food paste.

Which is a shame because you can eat so well today you can easily skip the dead animal carcass. They couldn't really do that back then in many places with short growing seasons.

Why would you skip the dead animal? That is by far the best part of every meal.

PS don’t jump into the whole animal cruelty spiel. I’m aware and I agree, it’s just that I don’t care. Vegetarian food, aside from maybe the narrow slice with how the Indians prepare it, is completely unsatisfying and I’m OK with animals suffering as long as I can continue to have meat because it’s just so delicious. That being said, I would eagerly switch to lab grown meat if they can do it correctly.

Vegan food on the other hand is brain dead food. I mean that literally and metaphorically. Anecdotally every vegan I’ve met seems nutritionally deficient and slow. They also go out of their way to eat food aping meat and that stuff turns out to be the most chemically processed and unhealthy stuff you could possibly imagine.

Re: Babylonian Lamb Stew with Beets (1750–1730 BCE)

#100

Post by sehansen »

selcuka wrote: post #66
riffraff wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, in various European languages those tend to be "Turkish": turkey hens (the bird called turkey now), Turkish corn (maize), Turkish beans (long beans). Again, trade routes.

> Turkish corn (maize) And in Turkish maize is called "Mısır", which comes from the country name Egypt (which is also Mısır in Turkish). When Arabs conquered Egypt, they called it "Mishr" (مصر) which literally translates to "country" or "borderland". Maize was originally imported from the Americas, but because the trade route was through Egypt, Turkish people initially called it Egypt Wheat or Egypt Millet. In time,…

I wonder what they call maize in Egypt then?

According to Kagi Translate, a term for maize that's specific to Egypt is "الذرة الشامية" (al-dhura ash-shāmiyyah) which could be directly translated to "Levantine sorghum". Can anyone with actual knowledge of Egytian Arabic confirm?

Also I had the idea that "Maize" might have come from "Mısır", but etymonline claims it comes from the native (Arawakan) name for the plant: mahiz.

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