It is all fun and games on-prem until it’s time for the annual support contracts.
Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone
321–330 of 340 posts
Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone
#322The cloud space is absurd, we've sat by for 2 decades while the likes of AWS define every aspect of deployment, auth, even containerisation. Containerisation was supposed to mean host anywhere, literally redeploy a complex set of services and their connections on any cloud provider at the drop of a hat. That is what a f**ing shipping container is, you rock up to any port in the world and the same container is lifted…
[dead]
Made up story? I have S3 bucket that still around from online communities that died down and cloud haters "backed up", one of these hates asks me for copy of a backup once a year because his copy keeps getting lost.
Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
They also called out Sandstorm for requiring changes to the applications for them to run on the platform.
Which is true. There's no issue with honest criticism, but when it's careless or disingenuous then it it's a put reflection on the speaker.
Right, I wouldn't have mentioned it if their own platform didn't apparently have the same issue.
Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone
#324In an ideal world where software is well-written, you don't need containers to make self-hosting easy. You just copy over the binary with some config files and run it.
Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone
#325>At the core, it's just an Ubuntu machine with a web server that hosts a dashboard and routes HTTP(s) requests to containerized apps. So no fail over/redundancy? I think at minimum it should be two machines, so one can break. That is one of the important features of cloud applications as far as I'm concerned. You don't have to deal with the problem of a single computer breaking.
> So no fail over/redundancy? I think at minimum it should be two machines, so one can break. Do you have two instances of everything in your life? It's clear this product is intended for personal use. I guess you have a couch in your home. This couch can seat friends/family. Yet you don't have a spare one?
Of course I do. There's also chairs in case there's an issue with the couch.
Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone
#326>At the core, it's just an Ubuntu machine with a web server that hosts a dashboard and routes HTTP(s) requests to containerized apps. So no fail over/redundancy? I think at minimum it should be two machines, so one can break. That is one of the important features of cloud applications as far as I'm concerned. You don't have to deal with the problem of a single computer breaking.
This also adds a lot of moving parts and failure modes. For self-hosting I’d rather have downtime on a simple system that’s easy to fix rather than a complex setup that stays up but needs more maintenance when some component fails.
It's containerized. It's an easy enough problem to solve, if you don't want it complicated.
Here's what I did with my own setup: Stop the containers at night, copy the files to a second system that's configured with the same containers and that can become the primary as needed.
I already monitor my systems for health and backup states, so these would be added to that. But all that does take a few hours to set up.
You want your backups regardless and you want to have some certainty they're working/good. It's a problem that needs to be addressed, even you are going to agree with me on that.
Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand your viewpoint because but also have you considered that your approach adds nothing to the builder? I don't mean this in a judgemental way. In your scenario, I spend learning 50 different technologies that I will never use because they are not hired for. Whereas the colleague makes 50 different projects, gets comfortable with the technology and maybe hits an interesting edge case or two to talk about at…
> In your scenario, I spend learning 50 different technologies that I will never use because they are not hired for I'm actually saying the opposite of this. To learn react you also need to know html, css and javascript, so I am saying if you need to make a static website that is just a single page you may as well just write it in HTML. I am saying you should use less technology. Similarly to learn Docker you need to…
Dokku maintainer here.
I'm sure bash will outlast me. I do hope to work on Dokku for another 10/20/40 years, but if there's a better project out there, I'd be happy to help users migrate and bow out of the deployment space.
I maintain Dokku for the folks that don't want to build and maintain a bespoke deployment process around docker, and the k3s implementation uses helm at its core, so users can eject when Dokku has run its course. I think there is value in that - maybe not for everyone, but at least for folks busy with building product on a budget.
That said, I'm happy to see folks continue to build new tools and iterate on ideas in this space. Definitely cool to see how everyone improves on stuff I - and others - been working on for the last two decades.
Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone
#328[dead]
Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with part of your complaint, and many cloud services are deliberate vendor lock in (e.g. “serverless”). But all the cloud vendors offer containers as a service, where you build your image locally and run it in a region. Naturally there will be setup to access networking, IO, gpus etc. so i think you have some fair claims but you’re not making the best case here.
Containers as a service are ludicrously expensive as a way to buy compute though. It’s just amazing how much a poxy 1cpu 1gb instance is on azure.
Indeed. Convenience has a price. It’s the DoorDash of vcpu
Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think a lot of programmers in the industry just follow trends, they don't really understand the benefits and drawbacks of the technology they are using. I have coworkers who host personal projects for their own use and put them in docker, set up CI pipelines, host them on a cloud service, use an enterprise level database on the backend. One of my coworkers made a completely static portfolio website with a single pa…
> One of my coworkers made a completely static portfolio website with a single page and used react. People love hating on react, but I mean this is pretty common. Raw is fine, but even in a "static" thing, you'll eventually go "ok now I want to reuse some text here.." Or have some common elements with x things shared. So I'm gonna have to write some hacky imperative JS? Or messy CSS? And what starts as static very ea…
Yeah pretty much this. I tend to use Astro but I think your point still stands.
I wanted to make a basic online agenda in a few different formats for a Toastmasters club and though I could have used raw html and css to build it, but each agenda had slightly different layout that would have been a lot of copy pasting in html and lots of room for error.
With astro and react islands it was fairly simple to implement.