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A/I shuts down

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Re: A/I shuts down

#461

Post by stale2002 »

jasonlotito wrote: post #398
stale2002 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not controversial to say that right wing extremists exist, some of which even commit violence, so your analogy isn't the brilliant whataboutism gotcha that you intended it to be. So yes, just like some very far right people exist, that can justifiably be called terrorists, so to do some very far left individuals.

> just like some very far right people exist The difference being they have support from the president. Whereas on the left, it's just some random "person" on Twitter. Republicans and MAGA literally supports terrorists. This isn't a debate. It's fact.

No, its not random people on twitter. If you read the statements that were put it, it involved actual terroristic actions of a variety of groups to sabotage critical infrastructure.

Re: A/I shuts down

#462

Post by Arainach »

xienze wrote: post #389
Arainach wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe in civil liberties as rights and ideals, your belief shouldn't stop at borders.

Good point, we should also allow foreign organizations to contribute to US election campaigns and make Facebook ads because they might also believe in civil liberties as rights and ideals, uh... right?

Money isn't speech.

Re: A/I shuts down

#463

Post by 9763268964 »

unfocso wrote: post #12

Really sad, and also a testament of the fact that as much as we think we try to be indipendent, eventually once somebody starts putting enough pressure on the people around you (and you turn from "a neutral customer" to "a liability") the path to isolation is very short.

[flagged]

Re: A/I shuts down

#464

Post by mcv »

cortesoft wrote: post #443
mcv wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think absolute free speech exists; there are always some limits to speech. Ideally not too many, but there are kinds of speech that I don't think you have any choice but to restrict if you want to have any kind of decent, safe and free society: threats, libel/slander, blackmail, and hate speech. Those are the kind of things that will silence, mislead or manipulate others, and are therefore by themselves a thr…

I think this depends on how you define 'hate speech'. Is talking about how billionaires are the scum of the earth hate speech? I get the idea behind banning hate speech, but it gets really tricky when you try to think how to define and enforce it. Everyone agrees you need to be able to criticize groups that you don't like, so what makes it cross the line to hate speech (besides calls to violence, which would fall und…

I think calls to violence usually only count as threat when they're targeted at a specific person. To me, hate speech is about creating an unsafe, threatening or oppressive situation for a vulnerable demographic group. Like saying a specific ethic group is a threat to society, or general attacks against women in general. Thing that, when repeated enough, will normalise the idea of violence or oppression against that group.

But what about similar speech against powerful groups, like billionaires? Well, they're not vulnerable or marginalised, they already have a disproportionally large voice, so they're not easily silenced. And of course being a billionaire is a choice; they can abdicate from their wealth in a way people can't do from their gender or ethnic group. So it's not the same. That said, calls for violence against them might still count as hate speech or be considered specific enough to count as threats.

There is obviously some fuzziness, but there also is with other limits to free speech, and there are courts to ultimately adjudicate that.

Re: A/I shuts down

#465

Post by JumpCrisscross »

stymaar wrote: post #86
unfocso wrote: post #12

Really sad, and also a testament of the fact that as much as we think we try to be indipendent, eventually once somebody starts putting enough pressure on the people around you (and you turn from "a neutral customer" to "a liability") the path to isolation is very short.

This. When the US government decides to label you “terrorist organization”, it means that you are now targeted by the most potent state actor on earth, which will go as far as blowing up weddings in your neighborhood to stop you. So unless you're willing to become a literal terrorist organization and die with a bunch of your friends in an uphill battle (not technically unwinnable, but at least lopsided and the casual…

> When the US government decides to label you “terrorist organization”

We really need laws removing the power from the President to unilaterally declare organizations terrorists. At least not long term without their ability to fight the designation in court.

(Same for tariffs. There is no case where one needs emergency power to tariff or sanction anything. If you need to conduct urgent police action, court-ordered asset freezes are plenty.)

Re: A/I shuts down

#466

Post by 9763268964 »

riffraff wrote: post #394
dash2 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? > The anarchist cells responsible for sabotaging rail systems across France, Italy, Germany, and the Netherlands in 2026, relied on A/I Collective tools and services to claim responsibility for the attacks, publish official communiqués, and disseminate manuals for constructing improvised incendiary devices to target railways and other critical infrastructure. > The anarchist cell responsible for sabotaging th…

Well, the far left extremists also used ISPs, mobile phones, energy infrastructure to do this. Are those terrorist organizations too? Moreover, ask yourself: why hasn't Germany accused A/I of being co-responsible of the attacks?

[flagged]

Re: A/I shuts down

#467

Post by 9763268964 »

righthand wrote: post #3

> We are stopping, but the Resistance and ideas do not stop. Stay human. How will that be if the resistance is not visible to the public. What are all the people using their services supposed to do? I’m guessing there are plans to reform in a few years. Why is the Italian government not protecting them?

[flagged]

Re: A/I shuts down

#468

Post by MentalM »

riffraff wrote: post #394
dash2 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? > The anarchist cells responsible for sabotaging rail systems across France, Italy, Germany, and the Netherlands in 2026, relied on A/I Collective tools and services to claim responsibility for the attacks, publish official communiqués, and disseminate manuals for constructing improvised incendiary devices to target railways and other critical infrastructure. > The anarchist cell responsible for sabotaging th…

Well, the far left extremists also used ISPs, mobile phones, energy infrastructure to do this. Are those terrorist organizations too? Moreover, ask yourself: why hasn't Germany accused A/I of being co-responsible of the attacks?

[flagged]

Re: A/I shuts down

#469

Post by mcv »

pessimizer wrote: post #401
einpoklum wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why Europe needs to detach itself from the American banking system. So far, what it's detached itself from its sources of fossil fuels. With a little help from its great American friends.

I love how Europeans get pumped up on anti-American rhetoric when they are far more submissive to the US than even a Ukraine or a South Korea is. I'm starting to think the rhetoric (always about what they're about to do, something about Trump, something about Musk) is being pumped to them by US admin think tanks. The US is going to be at peace with Russia, and still pumping anti-Russian rhetoric into Europe to keep t…

> The US is going to be at peace with Russia, and still pumping anti-Russian rhetoric into Europe to keep them buying US LNG.

The US isn't really a source of anti-Russia rhetoric. In fact, the US may be the biggest source of pro-Russia rhetoric, with Trump constantly sucking up to Putin and repeating Kremlin talking points.

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