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How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

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Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#241
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

their marketing is really low-key and they must improve it because they have enticing products. OS offers page: https://www.shift.eco/shiftos/

Okay that's six: the ones I forgot are iodéOS and Postmarket (possibly the most popular Linux mobile, idk how I forgot about them), plus Shift's own custom OS which I'll count as two because there's a googleful and a googleless variant which is a relatively significant change, plus LineageOS and e/OS which I had mentioned. That's a lot of choice indeed! Thanks for the link

SailfishOS is another popular mobile Linux distro you should be aware of - it's been around for a long, long time - in fact its heritage can be traced all the way back to Nokia's Maemo OS (circa 2005), which became famous in the community with the Nokia 900.

And then in 2010, Maemo merged with Intel's Moblin to become MeeGo (featured on the Nokia N9). The MeegGo engineers who were let go (due to Nokia x Microsoft) then created Mer, and eventually started a new company called Jolla, who created SailfishOS based on Mer.

It's been 13 years already since SailfishOS was out, and if you include the Maemo heritage, it makes it the oldest surviving mobile Linux distribution.

Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#242
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> vs paranoia I really would like to mention that many times, using /e/OS or LineageOS (or the likes) means that you get worse security than Stock Android. It would be fine to run /e/OS or LineageOS on a Pixel, assuming those Android systems are not too slow with updates (my experience with my /e/OS phone was that they were 4 years behind as compared to Stock Android). But really, if you have a Pixel, it doesn't real…

> It would be fine to run /e/OS or LineageOS on a Pixel Both /e/ and LineageOS lag far behind on current security updates on a Pixel. Neither is based on Android 17 yet which was released in June 2026. Neither has the June 2026 or later Pixel firmware, kernel, driver and HAL patches. Both also roll back the standard security of AOSP but /e/ does so much more than LineageOS.

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Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#243
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you can't, AOSP doesn't even include a functional keyboard not a functional call manager nowadays. And I'm not even talking about the firmware side of things Sure that might be enough for very basic hardware like your drone controller example but not a phone

Well then you install apps .

You are just reinventing LineageOS here basically, patching the defects of AOSP to make it work on real phones

Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately, a lot of the “fairness” of the Fairphone is offered by “just buy a really popular manufacturer.” Everyone and their dog can repair an iPhone because it’s the most popular phone on the planet. Are those repairs accessible to the consumer at home with amateur skills? No, not really. However, newer iPhone models are significantly easier to repair and come along with lower repair costs direct from the manufac…

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Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not big on this general line on argument, but one point in particular: > And of course, fairphone’s hardware and OS are nothing to write home about. For the freedom and security nerds they’re better off with GrapheneOS on Pixel or whatever upcoming Motorola phones will support it. For the "freedom nerds", FP is one of the only (if not the only?) vendor to have official support for microG-based operating systems,…

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Devices are sold with GrapheneOS installed. Installing it with the web installer is very easy and safe so that's the recommendation for nearly everyone.

Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#246
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, GOS's threat model very specifically treats the user as a thing to defend against Can you elaborate? GOS mostly honours the Android security model, which many alternatives don't do (many times they don't have a choice because the device doesn't allow them to relock the bootloader, so they just defeat the whole security model from the moment you install). There is absolutely nothing that can be done on a St…

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That doesn't come across as steelmanning our position at all but rather the opposite. It omits the most important points.

Providing app accessible root in the OS greatly reduces security without people ever using it. It gives root access to a huge portion of the OS by having it around as a feature even if it's never used. It fundamentally breaks a large portion of the security model for verified boot, which can no longer defend against attackers maintaining privileged access after a compromise

In addition to the inherent reduction in security from providing it, nearly all apps built around using full unconstrained root access don't need anywhere close to that. In nearly all cases, it's used as a shortcut instead of doing things securely. Following the principle of least privilege by only granting the required privileges is a core part of security. For example, an app for managing low-level firewall rules only needs an API for doing so in netd and netd only needs CAP_NET_ADMIN rather than full root. Doing this by giving full root access to a graphical application which is not properly integrated into the standard firewall management is not a secure approach. Giving full root access to a large portion of the rest of the OS in a way that can be hijacked in many attack vectors to make it possible to dynamically grant it makes it a lot worse.

GrapheneOS does have user-accessible root access in userdebug builds. Those aren't the main production builds of the OS but people who believe they know better and want to have it can build, sign and use those instead. Building the OS also gives an opportunity to include safe implementations of features instead of insecure hacks.

Every app can be backed up as part of the baseline. Apps can exclude specific data but are nearly all doing so because that data is a cache or can't be used elsewhere. For example, Signal encrypts their database with the hardware keystore and bypassing them excluding it from backups to back up all the files for it will not result in the data being possible to restore elsewhere.

Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#247
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be fine to run /e/OS or LineageOS on a Pixel Both /e/ and LineageOS lag far behind on current security updates on a Pixel. Neither is based on Android 17 yet which was released in June 2026. Neither has the June 2026 or later Pixel firmware, kernel, driver and HAL patches. Both also roll back the standard security of AOSP but /e/ does so much more than LineageOS.

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Your response doesn't address what we said. You linked to a page showing LineageOS had a release in August 2026 which does not show it has shipped all the recent standard Android and Pixel security patches, which it hasn't done.

The latest releases of LineageOS for Pixels do not provide the June 2026 and later updates to the firmware, kernel, drivers and HALs because those have only been provided for Android 17 since it was released and LineageOS isn't yet based on Android 17. Separately from that, since Lineage is still based on Android 16 QPR2 it also doesn't include the many privacy and security patches not backported from Android 17.

Android ships many security patches as part of the QPR2 and yearly releases which are not backported to older releases. The backports to older releases are increasingly incomplete. Years ago, they stopped backporting any Low and Moderate severity patches to older releases and more recently they've been scaling back the amount of High and Critical severity patches which are backported. An official policy announcement was made to OEMs that they'd no longer backport many High and Critical severity patches where an LLM discovered the vulnerability internally due to the large volume of patches.

Pixels move to the latest OS releases and that means the firmware, kernel, driver and HAL code is only provided for those. It's most difficult for the major yearly releases due to the new API level but it's not trivial for QPR1, QPR2 and QPR3 either.

Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That doesn't come across as steelmanning our position at all but rather the opposite. It omits the most important points. Providing app accessible root in the OS greatly reduces security without people ever using it. It gives root access to a huge portion of the OS by having it around as a feature even if it's never used. It fundamentally breaks a large portion of the security model for verified boot, which can no lo…

How about having full access to /data? Or full system backups GrapheneOS still lacks? One might object granting root access to apps, but the device owner should at least have full FS access via adb.

Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#249
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then you install apps .

You are just reinventing LineageOS here basically, patching the defects of AOSP to make it work on real phones

I am really not sure what you are trying to say. GrapheneOS is AOSP + stuff. LineageOS is AOSP + stuff. Certified Google Android is AOSP + stuff.

What comes from AOSP goes into GrapheneOS, LineageOS and Certified Google Android. So obviously it makes sense to compare them.

Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#250
post #241
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay that's six: the ones I forgot are iodéOS and Postmarket (possibly the most popular Linux mobile, idk how I forgot about them), plus Shift's own custom OS which I'll count as two because there's a googleful and a googleless variant which is a relatively significant change, plus LineageOS and e/OS which I had mentioned. That's a lot of choice indeed! Thanks for the link

SailfishOS is another popular mobile Linux distro you should be aware of - it's been around for a long, long time - in fact its heritage can be traced all the way back to Nokia's Maemo OS (circa 2005), which became famous in the community with the Nokia 900. And then in 2010, Maemo merged with Intel's Moblin to become MeeGo (featured on the Nokia N9). The MeegGo engineers who were let go (due to Nokia x Microsoft) th…

That's interesting, is it any farther ahead of the others?
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