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Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

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Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#381

Post by lenkite »

mag7269 wrote: post #213
zzzeek wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh we (the non idiots here) know full well what we lost. If Europe has a larger and more substantial science / technology community, that will just mean more trips/job offers in EU for me, so go Europe !

As an American, I welcome a multi-polar world where Europe pulls its weight when it comes to science, technology and engineering! More so in geopolitical matters. It’s always been very draining for one empire or nation to maintain world peace. The 19th century was Pax Britannica, the 20th, after WW2, was Pax Americana, we can now hope that Pax AmEuropana can offer a counter to the crazy rapid growth of Asia and also…

> maintain world peace

Maintain "world war" (for corpo-profit) -> FIXED

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#382

Post by [deleted] »

vladms wrote: post #134
decimalenough wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you meant non-US? Although Ariane's rockets are wildly expensive and uncompetitive compared to SpaceX.

They are more expensive but the figures I have seen are 3x for Ariane 5 and 2x for Ariane 6 (source : https://spacenexus.us/guide/space-launch-cost-comparison ). Then, it depends on what you need to do. A 3x cost if you deploy a strategic constellation is fine. A 3x cost if you want to launch huge payloads for a Mars trip (I know costs were for LEO, just giving an example) is probably uncompetitive.

[deleted]

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#383

Post by numpad0 »

somenameforme wrote: post #266
toomuchtodo wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means the laws of physics allow it, and anyone willing to invest the time and fiat to accomplish it can. This means the world will no longer need to rely on SpaceX for inexpensive lift to orbit through reusable first stages, which is objectively good. No different then China working towards obviating the need for ASML for EUV semiconductor manufacturing.

There are a lot more barriers to things in the real world. China has been dedicating immense effort and brainpower to cloning SpaceX, and they're still not especially close. I think a lot of us (certainly including myself) have no intuition for why this is, because we live in the software world where if you see something that is done then cloning it is generally just a matter of time and effort. But there's certainly…

> I think a lot of us (certainly including myself) have no intuition for why this is,

It's because space programs are job programs to keep the advanced rocketry tech available for future use. The so-called launch market never materialized. Congresses of launch capable nations are completely fine with couple hundred to low billion dollars divided by couple launches per year doing science and gravity experiments and occasional TV sat launches. Every dollar "saved" is every dollar unspent and diverted away from STEM.

Starlink wouldn't be accounting for like 99.9% of Falcon 9 launches and 99.9999% of man made objects in space if this wasn't the case.

China does what it does because else the world won't take them seriously, which creates artificially lower socio-economic statuses with no benefits to anyone. They have bunch of different lineages of space launch vehicles and production capacities, they don't need reusability per se. Same goes for humanoids - US/CN both have ~zero chance entering heavy industry hard robotics used in car plants, and that leads both into so-to-speak alternative robotics.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#384

Post by mopsi »

drysine wrote: post #377
mopsi wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no coup: Parliament votes 328-0 to impeach Yanukovych on Feb. 22; sets May 25 for new election

There was no impeachment: Parliament did not vote to impeach the president, which would have involved formally charging Yanukovych with a crime, a review of the charge by the Constitutional Court, and a three-fourths majority vote in parliament—at least 338 votes in favor.[0] Please don't spread misinformation [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity#Removal_...

In English, impeachment is often used loosely to mean parliamentary removal from office, which happened there. You're the one spreading misinformation with cope about foreign coups when Ukrainians simply kicked your clown out of their house.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#385

Post by hn_submit »

Tuna-Fish wrote: post #229
hn_submit wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like most "small rocket companies" they'll come to the conclusion that they need bigger rockets to launch bigger payloads. Rockets that compete directly with Ariane 6. With some luck these will be reusable to, making Ariane 6 and ArianeSpace obsolete. ESA and ArianeSpace will slowly but surely decay into obsolescence.

You seem to be confused about what organizations do what. ESA neither launches or builds rockets. They are an end-user, and they own the launch infrastructure in Kourou. Both these roles will exist long after Ariane is gone. Arianespace does not build rockets. It's a launch services provider, they purchase the rockets from other companies, handle all the logistics and manage the launchpad. It's in no way married to A…

If national governments can launch their own payloads without having to go through ESA or ArianeSpace it'll undermine the latter's position. They may even become competitors.

Italy accused the French-based ArianeSpace of deliberately taking launches away from the Italian-build Vega rocket in favor of the French-build Ariane rockets. They've now left ArianeSpace and are selling the rockets themselves and using ESA's infrastructure to launch them.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#386

Post by wallst07 »

zzzeek wrote: post #206
lostlogin wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's funny how we can't be celebrate a European achievement without trying to interpret it into relationship to the US. It really isn’t funny. The US shat the bed and for now the repercussions are mainly being felt outside the US. When the US realises what it’s lost it’s going to be too late.

Oh we (the non idiots here) know full well what we lost. If Europe has a larger and more substantial science / technology community, that will just mean more trips/job offers in EU for me, so go Europe !

I'm an idiot, what have we lost exactly? Soft Power?

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#387

Post by wallst07 »

drysine wrote: post #290
mag7269 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, I welcome a multi-polar world where Europe pulls its weight when it comes to science, technology and engineering! More so in geopolitical matters. It’s always been very draining for one empire or nation to maintain world peace. The 19th century was Pax Britannica, the 20th, after WW2, was Pax Americana, we can now hope that Pax AmEuropana can offer a counter to the crazy rapid growth of Asia and also…

>As an American, ... maintain world peace I can't believe people are saying that with straight face. How on Earth can you see all the wars that the US has started or had a hand in igniting and still think that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_realism

I think you maybe believing that War would not have happened or there was some other approach without war, ever? I'm sorry but such beliefs are as wishful thinking as buying the world a coke.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#388

Post by twenty-fifty-ni »

gspr wrote: post #299
Alien1Being wrote: post #282

Really sad to see that Europe is so far behind. Consider India, once single country vs all of Europe: 88 orbital launches successfully reached orbit using Indian built rockets starting in 1980. This is out of 104 individual liftoffs. Over 46 years of successful launches.

As a European, I'm glad functioning sewage systems took priority over an orbital launch capability.

[flagged]

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#389

Post by jpleyden98 »

YZF wrote: post #251
jpleyden98 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're just showing your ignorance and lack of knowledge about the history of the EU. Whilst the EU in it's current form did not exist until 1993, it's predecessor the European Coal and Steel Community was formed in 1950 with the Schuman Declaration: https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-histor... The primary goal of this was to prevent another war by joining european economies together economically.…

Definitely far from my expertise but I think you're contradicting yourself. I am talking about the formalization that is specifically the modern European Union. You are talking as if it's some inevitable consequence of earlier efforts. > Europeans who created the EU knew about balance of power geopolitics so well, they created this slow bureaucratic mess specifically to stop Germany and France sliding back into the s…

Presuming the EU just appeared out of thin air in 1992/1993 and ignoring the predecessor organisations which were crucial for the formation of the EU is just wrong.

It's also not just about WW2, europe had at that point been at major war with itself in some form or another for well over a thousand years with only very brief periods of peace.

Of course by the 1990s it wasn't top of peoples minds because there had been peace for nearly 40 years, which is testament to the success of the original project, it doesn't mean the original goals had disappeared.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#390

Post by 1294899 »

dakolli wrote: post #339
sinuhe69 wrote: post #252

Congratulations! An immensely important achievement, I’d say. IMO, this success has a great implication for accessibility and sovereignty of the EU. Although ESA can launch from French Guiana, the spaceport is an ocean-away from Europe! That fact alone affects the cost and the launch cadence for Europe greatly. Now they prove they can launch directly from Norway with their own production from Munich and elsewhere and…

Dont worry the US will hoodwink Europe back into be a compliant vassal of the Empire in a few years when they elect a democrat who pretends to be liberal and acting in good faith, probably AOC(ia).

Why is this downvoted? This is exactly how US foreign policy works. The only difference with Trump is that he says things out loud.

This is 100% what is going to happen. US foreign policy relies on deception and decade long plans. The big plans are ruling the Middle East and squash opposition (Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq done, Iran pending).

To that end Russia had to be kept busy, therefore the Ukraine proxy war, which has the additional benefit of tying up the EU and cut it off from Russian natural resources.

It makes the EU dependent on the US as an energy exporter. These plans are old and both parties have diligently executed them.

Even with the Greenland annexation threats there are Democrats who think it wouldn't be a bad idea, but you should not say it out loud.

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