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Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

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Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#291

Post by drysine »

kibwen wrote: post #204
xyzelement wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it mean that? Europe has had a space agency for a while now. So this story isn't "Europeans finally started to launch for space" but a private European company chose to launch from a continental location. It's funny how we can't be celebrate a European achievement without trying to interpret it into relationship to the US.

> Does it mean that? When the US government funded SpaceX, it was motivated in no small degree by a desire to not be permanently reliant on a geopolitical wildcard (Russia) for getting astronauts into orbit. Now that the US itself has become a geopolitical wildcard, savvy countries know that they need to seek out alternatives to SpaceX under more stable regimes.

>geopolitical wildcard

How is Russia a wildcard? What unexpected thing do you think Russia has done?

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#292

Post by drysine »

sebmellen wrote: post #149
johannes1234321 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are - but in cooperation with others. Parts of the Orion capsule of the current Artemis mission program are based on the German ATV, which is a capsule which was developed to supply ISS. On ISS there are German modules like Galileo. German Spacelab was a major component of many Space Shuttle missions. German companies like Zeiss provided optics and laser components for Apollo. To name a few, besides lots of sate…

I mean, Operation Paperclip and Von Braun were central to the success of the Apollo program. The Soviets had a similar postwar-German-capture program, if I remember correctly.

Not that similar

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49583883

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#293

Post by peterfirefly »

panick21_ wrote: post #262
mag7269 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, I welcome a multi-polar world where Europe pulls its weight when it comes to science, technology and engineering! More so in geopolitical matters. It’s always been very draining for one empire or nation to maintain world peace. The 19th century was Pax Britannica, the 20th, after WW2, was Pax Americana, we can now hope that Pax AmEuropana can offer a counter to the crazy rapid growth of Asia and also…

Yeah the world piece like all the wars in the middle east, Vietnam, proxy conflicts all over the world and so on and so on. I'm not blaming the US for all of these wars but they also didn't prevent them. And the US did overthrow many democracies and often made things much worse, Iran being a great example, but there are many others. I could go on. Peace in Europe was maintained mostly by people in democracies general…

> Vietnam

The US was actually on the right side in that one (just like in Korea). The Communists were not exactly the good guys and their "agricultural and personnel reforms" lead to drastically reduced food production and starvation and death.

Blame the US for real things instead, such as supporting the wrong side in Afghanistan in the '80s or ensuring the survival of the Soviet Union in the '40s.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#294

Post by culi »

hparadiz wrote: post #147
culi wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't flag your original comment. You're clearly very deep into identity-protective cognition and unable to discuss logically. You are taking criticism of a company very personally and getting emotional about it.

You are presenting statistics about government funding as "subsidies" when they aren't subsidies. They are just normal government contracts. That makes you a liar and a fool. You very clearly have an agenda to push but I will have none of it.

I looked through the link again and couldn't find a single one that is a contract and not a subsidy. Most of them look like this:

> Nevada has offered Tesla, an electric car producer, a subsidy package worth estimated $1.3 billion over several years. The package includes 100 percent abatements of sales taxes ($725 million saving over 20 years), real and personal property taxes ($332 million over 10 years), and modified business taxes ($27 million over 10 years). In addition, the subsidy package includes transferable tax credits: a tax credit of $12,500 per job for up to 6,000 jobs ($75 million saving for the company); a tax credit of 5 percent of the first $1 billion investment ($50 million); and a tax credit of 2.8 percent of the next $2.5 billion investment ($70 million). In addition, Tesla will receive cheaper electricity rates for eight years, which will save the company an estimated $8 million. Nevada will spend $43 million to buy the right of way for USA Parkway for the Tahoe Reno Industrial Center, where the Tesla facility will be located (the amount is not included in the total). The state will also change its laws to allow Tesla to sell its cars directly to consumers, rather than through car dealers. Jobs are projected full-time permanent jobs at the facility. Investment is total projected investment (the company has committed to invest $5 billion within first 3 to 5 years and another $5 billion during the following 10 years). However, to receive the subsidies, Tesla must invest $3.5 billion.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#295

Post by fsh »

ButlerianJihad wrote: post #244
fsh wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Launching far off the equator makes it more difficult and is therefore a bigger technological achievement.

The selection of launch site takes the orbital inclination into account. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun-synchronous_orbit The "Onward and Upward" cube sats were deployed to Sun-synchronous orbits, with a roughly polar inclination. Similarly, launches from USSF Base Vandenberg take a southerly trajectory, so it can be used for orbits like that. Rocket launches from continental Europe have been challenging because o…

You are still ~500 m/s short compared to launching on an equatorial orbit from the equator.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#296

Post by MadameMinty »

petcat wrote: post #176
noir_lord wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, in the same way that as a home owner I’d be “obsessed” with my neighbour if he was showing a predilection towards arson. I’d love to be able to go a day without having to see whatever the latest stupidity we’ll have to deal with the fallout from is, I really would.

This obsession started decades ago. Long before any recent politics. It's only gotten deeper and more intense recently.

Again, it's an "obsession" in the same way people can't look away from a three-legged dog.

Because you elected actors for president before. Because you had school shootings before. Because everything in the sky was always UFO to you, and everything on the ground either bigfoot or communists. Because you spread "democracy" that is shaped like bombs. Because you fund your own terrorists and drug cartels. Because you strong-arm world economies for non-reasons. Because you have nukes and eternal paranoia.

But yes, it did get much worse recently. Congratulations on noticing?

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#297

Post by peterfirefly »

blini-kot wrote: post #272
talon8635 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For any unfamiliar with the history, Russia was a mass murdering machine in this era, vaporizing tens of millions of people, including Russians, in very short spans of time without even a second thought. We all know Germans was. And some people would fling fecal allegations that “so was the US!”. No. German and Russian actions were categorically different than wartime casualties (even brutal, possibly criminal, warti…

For anyone actually unfamiliar with history, this is a gross exaggregation made with a sole purpose of equalizing nazi crimes with what happened in the soviet union. History does not work this way, in the early modernity masses were cohesive and industrialized, and so were the crimes and atrocities. Every developed country got to it, but what makes nazis different is that the regime was built with the sole purpose of…

The Soviet Union was far worse at the time (both before and after the existence of Nazi Germany). It got a lot better after Stalin's death.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#298

Post by gspr »

vladms wrote: post #127
clickety_clack wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coupled or uncoupled, an equal relationship between the US and the EU is much healthier. Europe should have an economy, military and industrial capacity similar to the US.

While in the current case I agree it is the path that should be taken, ideally I would prefer efficient relations, where people cooperate rather than having to duplicate everything because they don't trust their neighbor (should I make my bread because the baker might decide to poison me?!). But having educated people everywhere is hard, so some people, because they don't get how some stuff works, they try to abuse f…

Ideally, yes. But when the baker is running around with a red hat renaming lakes, you have to start kneading if you have any sense.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#299

Post by gspr »

Alien1Being wrote: post #282

Really sad to see that Europe is so far behind. Consider India, once single country vs all of Europe: 88 orbital launches successfully reached orbit using Indian built rockets starting in 1980. This is out of 104 individual liftoffs. Over 46 years of successful launches.

As a European, I'm glad functioning sewage systems took priority over an orbital launch capability.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#300

Post by peterfirefly »

bahmboo wrote: post #281

FYI Norway is not in the EU. Whether they are European is a matter of perspective and I'm not touching that subject any further! Deutschland is in the EU.

Norway is as close as you can get without formally being a member. It's not just the EEA, it's also a member of essentially all EU programs that aren't closed off for non-member states. That Norway is European is not a matter of perspective.
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