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Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone

cloudinabottle.org

231–240 of 342 posts

Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone

#231

The cloud space is absurd, we've sat by for 2 decades while the likes of AWS define every aspect of deployment, auth, even containerisation. Containerisation was supposed to mean host anywhere, literally redeploy a complex set of services and their connections on any cloud provider at the drop of a hat. That is what a f**ing shipping container is, you rock up to any port in the world and the same container is lifted…

If you don't mind me asking a question to better understand your perspective: Are you old enough to have personally experienced and built self-hosted things before the advent of AWS, cloud hosted stuff, or is your text above (which I do not disagree with in any way) the point of view of a person who began working on this stuff in the "cloud-native" era, post-2012 or around then? I'm thinking from the "20 years ago" i…

I remember driving to the datacenter to setup my own servers. I had a fractional T1 to my desk, it provided a blazing 640k (sometimes all the way up to an unfathomable 1MB!!1!) of bandwidth and only cost around $1,300 a month. Good times.

That gave way to hosting providers, like ServerBeach and Rackspace, where you paid them to setup the server hardware for you, saving the drive. You still had to deal with bandwidth, backup, redundancy, etc. Much easier than before but still a pretty big hassle.

Then the cloud happened. "Come to the cloud, where everything just magically happens for you," the salesperson said. So I went. And discovered that none of my scripts, tools or knowledge worked there, and had to completely start over from scratch. FOR EACH VENDOR. Gah.

The ONE thing I will grant cloud providers is that I can usually automate my way around their enshittification. They over-complicate things to an extreme where I do wonder if there is an actual savings or not, just based on the headaches their setups can consistently produce.

My take is that your needs pretty much determine which route is more/less painful. Sometimes you DO need the redundancy and uptime enough to tolerate the shenanigans of the vendor, and other times you just need your own machine to quietly get things done (without worrying about SLAs or client expectations).

The ultimate question you should be asking, and there is no right/wrong answer: For this particular effort, is it more valuable to you to learn how to do these things by hand, or is the infrastructure just a means to an end so you can do something specific?

Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone

#232
post #96
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The user was called adl-collab, when it forked repos to add implementations it made them under a branch called "andrew". The biggest contributor to the project in the last 3mo is andrewlaack... and we can also just take a guess that "adl" in adl-collab is AnDrewLaak.

Yeah, I'll make sure this doesn't continue. To be clear there were 11 total issues posted; this was a mistake, not some huge spamming campaign.

[deleted]

Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone

#234

The cloud space is absurd, we've sat by for 2 decades while the likes of AWS define every aspect of deployment, auth, even containerisation. Containerisation was supposed to mean host anywhere, literally redeploy a complex set of services and their connections on any cloud provider at the drop of a hat. That is what a f**ing shipping container is, you rock up to any port in the world and the same container is lifted…

If you don't mind me asking a question to better understand your perspective: Are you old enough to have personally experienced and built self-hosted things before the advent of AWS, cloud hosted stuff, or is your text above (which I do not disagree with in any way) the point of view of a person who began working on this stuff in the "cloud-native" era, post-2012 or around then? I'm thinking from the "20 years ago" i…

I'm in my 40s, full disclosure I've never worked in devops 'officially' but have hosted many personal and commercial projects, worked as a developer and later product manager. I have run my own small businesses as well as working for various corps.

In defence of cloud I will say that back in mid 2000s I did have to buy and rack my own servers, this was a pain in the ass and I don't want to ever see and especially hear the inside of a datacenter again. I'll also say that a lot of things are much easier and safer today, the industry has developed a lot of process and tooling.

So the issue isn't necessarily "cloud" but how large cloud vendors have strategised in their own best interests to do vendor lock-in, especially on the lower end of startups that are obviously open to shipping now and paying later, and how we have all lapped that up because they do give generous free-tiers and they do solve some real problems.

Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone

#236
post #50

These guys have been spamming issues in repos trying to promote this project and no disclosure whatsoever that they are associated with the project. https://github.com/search?q=%22cloudinabottle.toml%22&type=i...

On the plus side, I learned about some interesting projects from that GitHub query.

Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like this? https://freedombox.org/ It’s been around since 2010.

Why didn't you tell me about this years ago?

Because it's not as conventient or functional as cloud and they don't pay me to talk it up.

Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone

#238
post #64
post #50

These guys have been spamming issues in repos trying to promote this project and no disclosure whatsoever that they are associated with the project. https://github.com/search?q=%22cloudinabottle.toml%22&type=i...

(author here) I'm checking with my team to confirm these came from us, but if so I apologize for this - posts like these should come from a real account with proper disclosure, but also these sorts of requests feel premature for a project like ours that doesn't yet have a sizeable user base.

Please don't require app cooperation for getting apps into a bottle. I don't want to have to fight to get a file in, nor maintain my own fork.

Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone

#239
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest difficulty is probably that from my observation, there's a sharp cutoff line somewhere between Gen Y and Z where anyone born before that (and don't work in tech) genuinely have no idea how to navigate their digital life and gets preyed on by those subscriptions. And these people are still a super large portion of the population paying for those subscriptions. Only Gen Z and later are starting to care and…

Looking at my younger sister, I'd risk saying it's the same in all generations. I'll even say more: I think earlier generations had a general thought of "computer consists of separate parts; you can buy them separately and replace if needed / want better performance", even the less technical ones. But now everything is a black box (therefore e.g. why not overspend and always buy a black box from Apple if that's fashi…

If it is fashionable for 20-30 years running across multiple categories, maybe it's actually valuable and worthwhile.

Re: Cloud in a Bottle: making self-hosting accessible to everyone

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking a question to better understand your perspective: Are you old enough to have personally experienced and built self-hosted things before the advent of AWS, cloud hosted stuff, or is your text above (which I do not disagree with in any way) the point of view of a person who began working on this stuff in the "cloud-native" era, post-2012 or around then? I'm thinking from the "20 years ago" i…

I remember driving to the datacenter to setup my own servers. I had a fractional T1 to my desk, it provided a blazing 640k (sometimes all the way up to an unfathomable 1MB!!1!) of bandwidth and only cost around $1,300 a month. Good times. That gave way to hosting providers, like ServerBeach and Rackspace, where you paid them to setup the server hardware for you, saving the drive. You still had to deal with bandwidth,…

Yeah agreed, there are pros and cons but ultimately we are exchanging control for convenience.

The idea of a hosting provider that manages all the boilerplate, security updates etc is not a bad thing. The idea of being able to spin up another node, have load balancing etc just work and you didn't even have to get out of bed - is also not a bad thing.

Where it becomes suspicious is when Amazon and Google both have their 'own' databases, which are just different enough to make it a pain. And yes I know I can spin up e.g. a Postgres instance on Google or AWS for not much money, but now I have a vendor-specific provisioning script. "Just use Terraform or Pulumi" - even when an LLM manages this web of corporate enterprise nonsense it's still unmanageable and everyone just ends up with a run book of prayers.

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