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Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

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Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#501

Post by mulmen »

wahern wrote: post #207
tw04 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And does Brazil have their own 13th amendment that allows them to use prison labor as their modern slave workforce?

It's called penal labor, and it was and remains widespread around the world. (And, yes, Brazilian law requires mandatory labor for all prisoners.) It wasn't until the middle to late 20th century that countries began to reform penal labor. But it's complicated. Without penal labor you can't force prisoners to, e.g., do laundry or mop floors. Even mandatory community service is a form of penal labor, and you can still…

> Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

> Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

The 13th amendment specifically mentions penal labor as an exempt form of slavery.

Take your criticism to the authors of the 13th amendment, not the people who bothered to read it.

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#502

Post by DANmode »

preg_match wrote: post #495
DANmode wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yup, if i claim everyone is corrupt, then i can be corrupt. We could just decide that’s not how it goes.

You actually can’t, because of the nature of incentives. If everyone else is corrupt and you’re not, you fall behind and get pushed out. This is how systems work. We see the same thing with companies. If everyone else is using, say, shady dark patterns you’re not, you lose market share and go out of business. The only result then is that everyone must use dark patterns, it stops being optional. If everyone is corrupt…

No, as a populace, we could decide.

By voting, etc. Not by running for office.

> If everyone is corrupt, how will you

by doing it before literally everyone is corrupt.

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#503

Post by DANmode »

hakunin wrote: post #483
DANmode wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But finally real. The word you’re looking for is blatant . It has been there over 50 years, with the ratchet tightening toward where we are now not each year - but mostly in the shadows, not in your face laughing. Two things change each year: - how much the populace has been proven to “take” - how much further the empire’s attention is spread out, leading to it not serving its own interests and citizens, aside from…

No, the word is _real_. What we had before is a normal amount of corruption. There's no such thing as having zero crime. Just like we can say that air travel is safe, despite there being incidents, we can say there is no corruption, despite there being incidents. The talk of shadowy cabals and conspiracies are fashionable, but never proven. Corruption that actually meaningfully hurts the country and the world at scal…

> What we had before is a normal amount of corruption. There's no such thing as having zero crime.

These two things aren’t mutually exclusive.

Also, “normal” isn’t good. In fact, “normal” often seems like a horrible bar to aim for.

> Corruption that actually meaningfully hurts the country and the world at scale (in recent history) only started with this administration.

You don’t do the sort of systemic damage observant people have been pointing out for MANY administrations. Is this one bad? Yes.

But it’s really weird and incorrect (based on the definition of the words) to say the corruption only just recently became real / meaningful / harmful.

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#504

Post by autoexec »

hakunin wrote: post #195
autoexec wrote: post #8

Corruption in the US isn't new, but it's never been done as openly as it has been recently. I don't think it's a good thing. It shows that the government isn't concerned about what the public thinks, which suggests that they believe they no longer have to be. That's not a healthy sign for what's supposed to be a democracy.

Saying “US corruption isn’t new” is a truism. There are probably isolated incidents, and many unproven theories, but everyone is quick to agree with this statement because it’s a common feeling everyone has now for some reason. The reality of corruption is likely much smaller and more boring than people think. What we’re witnessing now is what should be called corruption. That corruption that everyone has been scream…

> Saying “US corruption isn’t new” is a truism. There are probably isolated incidents, and many unproven theories, but everyone is quick to agree with this statement because it’s a common feeling everyone has now for some reason. The reality of corruption is likely much smaller and more boring than people think.

Corruption in the US been extensively documented and proven. The revolving door at regulatory bodies, dark money, gerrymandering, no-bid contracts, "kids for cash", the collusion at the DNC before the 2016 primary, unconstitutional domestic spying by the NSA (along with the directer James Clapper lying to congress under oath without consequence), the lies the George W. Bush administration sold the public to justify his wars (and just about everything else surrounding them including profiteering, the use of torture, and many other war crimes), the Whitewater scandal, etc.

You can go back in time as far as you like and you'll find things like The Teapot Dome scandal or The Whiskey Ring.

The kind of corruption we're seeing today is exceptional, but to pretend that anything before now was "isolated incidents" and "unproven theories" is beyond ridiculous. Things right now are bad enough that we don't have to blind ourselves to our own history in order to make it appear worse. It is worse. It doesn't change the reality that corruption has been an ongoing problem in the US and maybe if we'd been more aggressive about punishing it we wouldn't be here today. Sweeping any of it under the rug is the last thing we should be doing.

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#505

Post by garte »

petcat wrote: post #401
garte wrote: post #397

What I'm wondering these last few years is whether American "politics" has anything actually political to discuss like ensuring the pension system is still intact in 30 years, improving access to a solid education (and even more so: what does that mean?), drug prevention, transparent election processes, tax and debt management... Over here in Europe you only hear about "US politics" like guns and cars or DEI ... stuf…

Yes, there is a lot of "actual politics". For instance, the Protect College Sports Act is currently being intensely debated. It centers on the idea of amateurism in college athletics and what that means for things like college football and the Olympic sports. Americans love dominating the world at the Olympics every few years and that's because of the NCAA and college athletes, so people care about it. > Over here in…

> This is because Europe, and everyone else in the western world, is obsessed with the United States and obsessed with Americans.

Either you're an American which would prove the "most Americans are ignorant about their imperialism and their own militarized society" or you aren't and aren't watching that many news the last 10 years... either way that's not a very... thoughtful comment.

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#506

Post by FireBeyond »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #135
the_gastropod wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you’re going to get downvoted to hell, but you’re pretty much spot on. There’s something strangely desirable about being seen as the edgy contrarian “not left, not right” person. But 9 times out of 10, that person has approximately the same incoherent worldview most Trumpists have.

He's not spot on at all, and that's why he's being downvoted. He's examining the world through a false dichotomy of "if you aren't on my side, you support my enemies". But the reality is that most people who consider themselves independent are actually independent and vote for whomever they consider to be the best candidate.

"the reality is" as you offer up as much evidence as you claim the OP is lacking.

Meanwhile in my FB circle of friends and acquaintances I have 3 people who call themselves Independent, and 4 who call themselves Libertarian.

All of them have voted for Trump, twice, and as far as I know, at least 2 voted multiple times for the Bush dynasty.

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#507

Post by preg_match »

DANmode wrote: post #502
preg_match wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You actually can’t, because of the nature of incentives. If everyone else is corrupt and you’re not, you fall behind and get pushed out. This is how systems work. We see the same thing with companies. If everyone else is using, say, shady dark patterns you’re not, you lose market share and go out of business. The only result then is that everyone must use dark patterns, it stops being optional. If everyone is corrupt…

No, as a populace , we could decide. By voting, etc. Not by running for office. > If everyone is corrupt, how will you by doing it before literally everyone is corrupt.

Oh yes I agree, we’re on the same page. But of course it doesn’t just need to be preventive, it can be fixed now.

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#508

Post by vannevar »

koolba wrote: post #180
vannevar wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The only thing I got out of this article is that both parties + the F500 need to be destroyed. I don't know, if we'd had an overwhelmingly Democrat-dominated government, we'd have comprehensive bans on government insider trading and we'd correct the bad ruling in Citizens United. Corporatism is definitely a bipartisan issue, but at least Democrats recognize it as a problem, while to Republicans it's a feature. Not e…

> I don't know, if we'd had an overwhelmingly Democrat-dominated government, we'd have comprehensive bans on government insider trading We had two years under Biden with Democrat control of the House and the Senate. They passed no legislation to ban insider trading. It probably didn’t help that the poster octogenarian for insider trading was Speaker of the House > and we'd correct the bad ruling in Citizens United. C…

>CU was absolutely the correct ruling as it just means I can take money from wherever I’ve earned it and spend it on publicizing my message.

Are you literally a corporation? If not, you should perhaps read the decision.

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#509

Post by optimisticedits »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #247
guerrilla wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading things like this help me understand how so many people fall for scams. You're so extremely trusting that it's hard to wrap my mind around... I can't relate on any level.

Prove him wrong. Show us documented cases of corruption from, say Obama, or Biden, or Bush Jr. And then we'll compare it to the documented cases of Trump corruption, starting with his 2 crypto pump-and-dump schemes and his family's fake crypto company (3 already very brazenly open ones and there are more!) and let's see if you can pull similar for any of the previous presidents of the 21st century

Which US Administration said or did anything to prevent every US corporation from trading their manufacturing secrets for cheap labor, to the totalitarian country that they're all allegedly wringing their hands over for us?

Which one stopped the CIA from overthrowing democratic elections in other countries right from their inception, starting with Italy in the 50s and continuing with Operation Gladio all throughout Europe and moving into Southeast Asia as they worked with criminal groups to perfect their narco funded guerrilla warfare machine?

Did Trump even catch up to the number of bombs that "peace prize" Obama dropped in 8 years?

There are no sides, there's just a corporate Uniparty putting on some theater for you and you can absolutely prove that out if you dig past surface material and surface thinking.

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#510

Post by vannevar »

lesuorac wrote: post #145
paisawalla wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Aren't the beliefs founded though? There are immigrants who commit crimes. Sure, it's not _every_ Mexican is a rapist and we're probably talking about basis points of basis points here. But it's a foundation. Hunter Biden did get money from people who wanted access to Joe Biden. Sure, Joe didn't actually help them out. But it's a foundation. The problem isn't the unfoundedness it's that it's extrapolated beyond what…

>The problem isn't the unfoundedness it's that it's extrapolated beyond what the foundation supports.

The purpose of creating a "Biden crime family" was to implicate Joe Biden in the actions of his son without needing any evidence that Biden himself traded on his presidency (because there was none). I see the point you're trying to make, but evidence that Hunter traded on his dad's fame simply isn't evidence of any wrongdoing by Joe Biden.

Regarding immigrants, unless it is shown that they commit crimes at a higher rate than the rest of the population---and it hasn't---that isn't a foundation either.

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