Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given your experience with data centers, what do you think of this quote from the article? > In any case, even the noise worry is overstated: many viral videos of supposed AI data centre noise are really Bitcoin mines, not state-of-the-art hyperscaler facilities. Are there really major differences between a hyperscaler, neocloud, and crypto mining data center in terms of noise pollution or other negative effects?
No, there really isn't. It's more a question of how the data center is cooled. There are quieter more expensive options, which is why they often aren't used.
The moral panic over data centres is foolish
81–90 of 206 posts
Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish
#82what about the videos of residents showing decibel meters going off and water pressure dropping? just an anecdote but what exactly do local residents gain here? a handful of permanent maintenance jobs?
Of course those are real issues that should be addressed. Just like if a factory producing bicycles is running all night and keeping you awake. But it's not something that should be concerning for anyone outside the area. It's not an existential crisis, just a local nuisance.
The issue right now is the boom of data center building has them being built wherever approval can be had, rather than in more reasonable industrial locations.
It's reasonable to not want a data center built next to you in the same way it's reasonable to not want an iron smelter or pit mine built next to you. There are reasonable places to build data centers, pit mines, and iron smelters and it's not residential neighborhoods. Building them in residential neighborhoods anyway because they can, is what is forcing this issue to a head.
That and water usage building them in places with water issues. There are a lot of places in the country that don't have water issues. Data can be moved around the country quickly. The problems are solvable, but the builders are more interested in chasing short-term dollar than solving them. The opposition should hopefully reshape the construction into a more reasonable reality.
Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Either I'm blind or it also doesn't say who wrote it. But it does offer AI narration.
Is this your first time reading The Economist?
Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, there really isn't. It's more a question of how the data center is cooled. There are quieter more expensive options, which is why they often aren't used.
Interesting. What ways? Suppose I wanted to call the governor and say “I have an answer to how to regulate these that solves the noise problem” what would we be asking for?
Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish
#85There's a lot of examples of companies failing to deliver things they promised at this level like the FoxConn complex in Wisconsin. Making city leaders sign NDAs doesn't help this. People are more skeptical of future tax revenue claims and it's hard to sell a direct benefit of the AI itself when you spent two years talking about eliminating all white collar jobs. The trust just isn't there.
Given the classical liberal philosophy of The Economist, this just reads like scolding when their world-view is falling out of favor. Luckily for AI boosters, I think data center builders are adapting to reality.
Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish
#86> just about everything in modern life, from streaming Netflix to running a dishwasher, consumes water at levels that can be portrayed as wasteful by hair-shirt environmentalists. Ad-hominems in an Economist article. This reads more like an opinion piece than reporting. There are plenty of documented problems with water usage of data centres. Some can use it efficiently but it costs more to do so and many (most?) do…
If people really cared about water usage, they'd be trying to shut down golf courses instead of data centers.
The difference here is that data centers are both economically and environmentally extractive. People in the community, or at least in the surrounding area, will play golf there. Data centers are purely extractive, and that's why they have become so galvanizing. It's transferring probably the only real asset these communities have left, their open spaces, directly to the elite.
Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot of the anti-data-center rhetoric is "windmills kill birds" or "dihydrogen monoxide" style fearmongering, not an actual debate.
No, it’s everyone watched the More Perfect Union video, saw sludge coming out of their faucets and low decibel hums ruining sleep, and decided to fight when peasants aren’t allowed to fight. Between this and Flock Cameras, tech isn’t making themselves the noble savior on a white horse and being a good neighbor when moving in.
Sure sounds like foolish moral panic. Many of the responses here so far would be perfectly at home on bluesky.
Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish
#88Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish
#89> just about everything in modern life, from streaming Netflix to running a dishwasher, consumes water at levels that can be portrayed as wasteful by hair-shirt environmentalists. Ad-hominems in an Economist article. This reads more like an opinion piece than reporting. There are plenty of documented problems with water usage of data centres. Some can use it efficiently but it costs more to do so and many (most?) do…
If people really cared about water usage, they'd be trying to shut down golf courses instead of data centers.
Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish
#90NIMBYs are the enemy of all that is good in the world. No datacenters isn't about AI or even resources like water or power, it's mostly about real-estate and housing prices as usual. If we listened to NIMBYs we would have no new infrastructure, no high density housing, no public transport.... oh wait.
> or even resources like water or power I wonder, do you know how much energy or water is required to run a datacenter with direct liquid cooled systems? Not the SOTA AI data centers which are popping up like mushrooms, a general ballpark is enough. This is not a loaded question. Given your knowledge, you must be knowing much more than majority of HN.
Back when I was running my own startup I moved to Mascot, Sydney to be near Equinix SY3 that was being built which we had bought a decent chunk of committed capacity in. Mascot was originally an industrial area but was gentrified a lot over the last 20ish years but the datacenters, meat packers etc are all still there. It really adds to the charm of the place in a lot of ways, warehouses/factories that have been converted to cafes and breweries. Which is to say I don't think living near a DC is bad at all, they aren't very loud and they just look like big warehouses with lots of lights, cameras and no windows. Oh and security dudes.
Anyways. Yes. The hardware I am working at $DAY_JOB is all direct liquid cooled. The coolant that actually cools the hardware is closed loop, it's not expended. Which means you don't actually use any of it and it's considered good for the entire life of the hardware.
I normally don't directly talk about $DAY_JOB things because there are pretty strict rules so I can only use publically referenced sources but you can read a little bit about the coolant we use in this article [1].
The facility loop though is usually what people are worried about. A lot of datacentres that were built in low humidity environments use evaporative cooling which does indeed use a ton of water. However most data centers in more humid environments don't and either use loops that recycle the water but dump the heat (i.e rivers/lakes) or use closed loop systems with radiators etc. It's worth mentioning though that evaporative cooling is extremely power efficient vs most closed loop solutions so there is a tradeoff here. I don't think Google could achieve their fleetwide PUE (Power Usage Efficiency, basically measurement of how much power goes to things in a DC that isn't a computer) numbers without relying on it heavily.
Given the difficulties getting DCs approved in much of the world right now and the backlog on generation capacity (i.e power) almost all modern DCs are being built to use as little water as possible.
To give you an idea I think evaporative cooling of the type you would find in a state of the art Google DC with a PUE of ~1.1ish might use 1-1.1L of water for every kWh of actual equipment load (this is a back of the napkin estimate, don't hold me to it).
Conversely true closed loop will use approximately zero.
So yeah, evaporative is a big waster of water especially at GW scale.
1: https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/data-centers/nvid...