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The moral panic over data centres is foolish

economist.com

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Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#31

Post by jedberg »

lc9er wrote: post #25
jedberg wrote: post #15

I have a lot of left leaning non-tech friends. They are all very much against AI data centers. I've built AI data centers, and I keep trying to educate them, but they just won't listen. The water is mostly part of a closed system. Sure, you need a lot to build one, but once it's running it's pretty water efficient. The lack of green power is a problem, but as the article points out, you now have a large customer subs…

Cool. Then then you live next to one.

No thanks, they are loud. I even called that out. But no one should be living next to them. Those people need to get their local government to regulate noise from all buildings. The companies won't do it on their own.

(This is part of why I no longer help build them, because when I asked about reducing noise and using green power I was laughed at).

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#32

Post by j45 »

Great another economist post of non-technology people talking about tech.

That's worked great for the datacenter misinformation so far.

There's not even an author on this article.

But you can listen to an ai narrated version of it.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#33

Post by quantummagic »

r_lee wrote: post #14

what about the videos of residents showing decibel meters going off and water pressure dropping? just an anecdote but what exactly do local residents gain here? a handful of permanent maintenance jobs?

Of course those are real issues that should be addressed. Just like if a factory producing bicycles is running all night and keeping you awake. But it's not something that should be concerning for anyone outside the area. It's not an existential crisis, just a local nuisance.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#35

Post by hypfer »

agentultra wrote: post #22

> just about everything in modern life, from streaming Netflix to running a dishwasher, consumes water at levels that can be portrayed as wasteful by hair-shirt environmentalists. Ad-hominems in an Economist article. This reads more like an opinion piece than reporting. There are plenty of documented problems with water usage of data centres. Some can use it efficiently but it costs more to do so and many (most?) do…

Either I'm blind or it also doesn't say who wrote it.

But it does offer AI narration.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#36

Post by Sharlin »

measurablefunc wrote: post #9

The banks will continue financing their construction so it doesn't matter how much people morally panic about it unless it becomes illegal to sell corporate bonds to banks they (Microsoft, Google, Oracle, etc) will continue building data centers.

There's this thing called zoning.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#37

Post by jedberg »

cl42 wrote: post #28
jedberg wrote: post #15

I have a lot of left leaning non-tech friends. They are all very much against AI data centers. I've built AI data centers, and I keep trying to educate them, but they just won't listen. The water is mostly part of a closed system. Sure, you need a lot to build one, but once it's running it's pretty water efficient. The lack of green power is a problem, but as the article points out, you now have a large customer subs…

Given your experience with data centers, what do you think of this quote from the article? > In any case, even the noise worry is overstated: many viral videos of supposed AI data centre noise are really Bitcoin mines, not state-of-the-art hyperscaler facilities. Are there really major differences between a hyperscaler, neocloud, and crypto mining data center in terms of noise pollution or other negative effects?

No, there really isn't. It's more a question of how the data center is cooled. There are quieter more expensive options, which is why they often aren't used.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#38

Post by bix6 »

quantummagic wrote: post #33
r_lee wrote: post #14

what about the videos of residents showing decibel meters going off and water pressure dropping? just an anecdote but what exactly do local residents gain here? a handful of permanent maintenance jobs?

Of course those are real issues that should be addressed. Just like if a factory producing bicycles is running all night and keeping you awake. But it's not something that should be concerning for anyone outside the area. It's not an existential crisis, just a local nuisance.

How is it not an existential crisis when it’s literally reshaping financial markets? That’s not just a local nuisance.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#39

Post by SamBam »

jedberg wrote: post #15

I have a lot of left leaning non-tech friends. They are all very much against AI data centers. I've built AI data centers, and I keep trying to educate them, but they just won't listen. The water is mostly part of a closed system. Sure, you need a lot to build one, but once it's running it's pretty water efficient. The lack of green power is a problem, but as the article points out, you now have a large customer subs…

Besides the data center itself, many people in the US are against what the data center is bringing: more AI.

Most regular people have not been sold on the idea that more AI will be good for them or their families or communities personally. Instead all they hear is AI taking away jobs, and AI preventing high schoolers and college kids from learning how to read a book and write an essay. Most people think a world with more AI seems bleaker.

So people wonder why communities don't want this hulking, loud, energy-expensive data center whose main benefit is to hasten the arrival of this world they don't want?

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#40

Post by timmg »

I was actually pretty worried that the anti-datacenter backlash would stunt and important industry (for the US).

But I think the effect will be that the companies building them will "sweeten" the deal for the local towns where they are building -- probably by way of taxes. And while that will be a drag on their development (by adding costs), the scale won't be bad enough to really hurt.

And in that sense, everyone wins. The locales will be happy to have the extra resources. And the ones that don't take the "bribe" -- or whatever you want to call it -- won't get datacenters.

(But I do agree that panic is overblown and counterproductive.)

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