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The moral panic over data centres is foolish

economist.com

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Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#71

Post by lbriner »

jedberg wrote: post #31
lc9er wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. Then then you live next to one.

No thanks, they are loud. I even called that out. But no one should be living next to them. Those people need to get their local government to regulate noise from all buildings. The companies won't do it on their own. (This is part of why I no longer help build them, because when I asked about reducing noise and using green power I was laughed at).

They had an article about Australia embracing AI data centers to be suppliers of the future and not just customers and one big pull is "the vast amounts of land in Australia" then said that one of them is being built within 100m of the nearest suburban house and 200m of a school.

It seems with all the other battles to fight, that moving it 2km down the road and surrounding it with trees and parkland would knock the noise argument out of the window. At least in the US and Australia that really do have vast amounts of open space.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#72

Post by dbdoug »

hypfer wrote: post #35
agentultra wrote: post #22

> just about everything in modern life, from streaming Netflix to running a dishwasher, consumes water at levels that can be portrayed as wasteful by hair-shirt environmentalists. Ad-hominems in an Economist article. This reads more like an opinion piece than reporting. There are plenty of documented problems with water usage of data centres. Some can use it efficiently but it costs more to do so and many (most?) do…

Either I'm blind or it also doesn't say who wrote it. But it does offer AI narration.

From the Economist website: "ALL writers at The Economist are anonymous."

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#73

Post by sanbor »

agentultra wrote: post #22

> just about everything in modern life, from streaming Netflix to running a dishwasher, consumes water at levels that can be portrayed as wasteful by hair-shirt environmentalists. Ad-hominems in an Economist article. This reads more like an opinion piece than reporting. There are plenty of documented problems with water usage of data centres. Some can use it efficiently but it costs more to do so and many (most?) do…

Using a dishwasher can be up to 5x more water-efficient than hand washing. Hand washing one load of dishes can use 20 gallons of water, whereas water- and energy-efficient dishwashers may use as little as four gallons.[1]

[1]: https://www.kitchenaid.com/pinch-of-help/major-appliances/di...

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#74

Post by hypfer »

jedberg wrote: post #63
hypfer wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The noise is an issue, I will admit that. As is the fact that a lot of the power is coming from non-green sources. But the government could easily fix these problems with regulations that apply broadly, not just to datacenters. Soooo You're building them, and you're agreeing that the biggest points of criticism are valid. But.. some handwaving that the government should do something about it and also others are too…

I don't do that anymore since I got laughed at by coworkers when I suggested we focus on using green power and reducing noise. So yes, my conscience is clear.

Welp.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#75

Post by jedberg »

shadedtriangle wrote: post #64
jedberg wrote: post #15

I have a lot of left leaning non-tech friends. They are all very much against AI data centers. I've built AI data centers, and I keep trying to educate them, but they just won't listen. The water is mostly part of a closed system. Sure, you need a lot to build one, but once it's running it's pretty water efficient. The lack of green power is a problem, but as the article points out, you now have a large customer subs…

Keep trying to educate them how? By your own admission data centers: * use a lot of water to build one * the power is a problem * the noise is an issue * the power is coming from non-green sources * the government could “easily” fix all this with regulations

Trying to educate them that water and power usage are the less problematic parts and not as bad as everyone thinks. It's the noise and lack of green power that are the problems.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#76

Post by xboxnolifes »

bloaf wrote: post #49
agentultra wrote: post #22

> just about everything in modern life, from streaming Netflix to running a dishwasher, consumes water at levels that can be portrayed as wasteful by hair-shirt environmentalists. Ad-hominems in an Economist article. This reads more like an opinion piece than reporting. There are plenty of documented problems with water usage of data centres. Some can use it efficiently but it costs more to do so and many (most?) do…

If people really cared about water usage, they'd be trying to shut down golf courses instead of data centers.

There has been tons of reported frustration with golf courses in the past. So, yes, people have, and it's pretty consistent here as well.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#78

Post by sajithdilshan »

I think the hatred towards the data centers stems from the anger and frustration that has been caused by the white collar job replacement done by AI.

We have an entire generation of young people that went to college and got a degree hoping that they would be able to get a good job and live a comfortable life. However, that's not the case anymore and the fact that almost all entry level jobs are replaced by AI has created this sentiment among people that somehow AI is evil.

The problem is not that AI is evil, but most of the people would have to learn new skills and adapt because the profession or job they trained at college doesn't exists anymore.

Data Centers have existed way before mainstream AI. Everyone would binge watch the latest season of popular shows of Netflix and won't even bat an eye thinking how much water that has wasted.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#79

Post by Onavo »

agentultra wrote: post #62
bloaf wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people really cared about water usage, they'd be trying to shut down golf courses instead of data centers.

Why not both?

True but not campaigning against golf courses make anti data center campaigns look hypocritical.

My personal criticism of data centers is mostly regulatory failure. The tech companies are choosing random ass states and stealing land from poor farmers instead of the traditional data center states like Virginia mostly because of tax breaks. The local government is just as if not more responsible for the issues with data centers. It's easy however to just point fingers at big tech instead of he underlying market failures in a lot of the states. The traditional data center states almost always have a supply of clean energy and water with a proper regulatory framework.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#80

Post by Gander5739 »

j45 wrote: post #32

Great another economist post of non-technology people talking about tech. That's worked great for the datacenter misinformation so far. There's not even an author on this article. But you can listen to an ai narrated version of it.

> There's not even an author on this article.

The Economist has anonymous writers for almost every article.

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