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The moral panic over data centres is foolish

economist.com

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Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#51

Post by gjsman-1000 »

bloaf wrote: post #41
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #7

“Moral panic” is just an academic jargon term for “settle down peasants.” “A backlash fuelled by misinformation and misunderstanding” is also just an academic jargon term for “my vision is superior, anyone who disagrees is out of stupidity, if they understood me they would agree.”

A lot of the anti-data-center rhetoric is "windmills kill birds" or "dihydrogen monoxide" style fearmongering, not an actual debate.

No, it’s everyone watched the More Perfect Union video, saw sludge coming out of their faucets and low decibel hums ruining sleep, and decided to fight when peasants aren’t allowed to fight. Between this and Flock Cameras, tech isn’t making themselves the noble savior on a white horse and being a good neighbor when moving in.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#52

Post by hypfer »

jedberg wrote: post #15

I have a lot of left leaning non-tech friends. They are all very much against AI data centers. I've built AI data centers, and I keep trying to educate them, but they just won't listen. The water is mostly part of a closed system. Sure, you need a lot to build one, but once it's running it's pretty water efficient. The lack of green power is a problem, but as the article points out, you now have a large customer subs…

> The noise is an issue, I will admit that. As is the fact that a lot of the power is coming from non-green sources. But the government could easily fix these problems with regulations that apply broadly, not just to datacenters.

Soooo

You're building them, and you're agreeing that the biggest points of criticism are valid.

But.. some handwaving that the government should do something about it and also others are too doing bad things.

And your conscience is clear, huh?

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#53

Post by porridgeraisin »

jedberg wrote: post #15

I have a lot of left leaning non-tech friends. They are all very much against AI data centers. I've built AI data centers, and I keep trying to educate them, but they just won't listen. The water is mostly part of a closed system. Sure, you need a lot to build one, but once it's running it's pretty water efficient. The lack of green power is a problem, but as the article points out, you now have a large customer subs…

The noise is the main issue. I'm not american, but one of my relatives works in bernie sanders's office, and one of my friends (30ish) is involved somehow in the democratic party not sure how exactly. And what I hear from them is that the issue is mostly the noise only. The water aspect was there but that was mostly disruption during construction.

They are powering it with turbines right, so if its next to your house it sounds like you're permanently in on the airport tarmac. Not great. I saw a video (not on the internet, but from them). It was pretty annoying. But it makes sense, there is no way a power delivery system in a developed country adapts so fast to such intense energy needs. Here in india, many 250Mw datacenters are put in places where a proper grid connection is itself coming for the first time, so the same problem is not there. And frankly there are way more noisy industries in poorly zoned mixed-industrial-residential areas here for generator noise to even matter.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#56

Post by tolerance »

hypfer wrote: post #35
agentultra wrote: post #22

> just about everything in modern life, from streaming Netflix to running a dishwasher, consumes water at levels that can be portrayed as wasteful by hair-shirt environmentalists. Ad-hominems in an Economist article. This reads more like an opinion piece than reporting. There are plenty of documented problems with water usage of data centres. Some can use it efficiently but it costs more to do so and many (most?) do…

Either I'm blind or it also doesn't say who wrote it. But it does offer AI narration.

Is this your first time reading The Economist?

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#57

Post by Sharlin »

CPLX wrote: post #21

Memo to anyone in the tech community who doesn’t agree with this: People fucking hate you and don’t trust you and are convinced, not without reason, that you have the specific goal and intention of destroying their way of life and ability to provide for their families. They also feel like they were never consulted in any of this and that nobody is representing their interests. You can agree or disagree with that poin…

Agreed. Might not be a bad idea to fire up the good old-fashioned empathy cells and try to understand the problem from the opponents' perspective.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#58

Post by grandinj »

jedberg wrote: post #15

I have a lot of left leaning non-tech friends. They are all very much against AI data centers. I've built AI data centers, and I keep trying to educate them, but they just won't listen. The water is mostly part of a closed system. Sure, you need a lot to build one, but once it's running it's pretty water efficient. The lack of green power is a problem, but as the article points out, you now have a large customer subs…

Maybe that is because you are the one not listening.

You even note the problems, but then wave them away saying that "the government could fix them."

So have the government fix those problematic regulations first, and then the AI centres can re-apply for permission.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#59

Post by hbn »

SamBam wrote: post #39
jedberg wrote: post #15

I have a lot of left leaning non-tech friends. They are all very much against AI data centers. I've built AI data centers, and I keep trying to educate them, but they just won't listen. The water is mostly part of a closed system. Sure, you need a lot to build one, but once it's running it's pretty water efficient. The lack of green power is a problem, but as the article points out, you now have a large customer subs…

Besides the data center itself, many people in the US are against what the data center is bringing: more AI. Most regular people have not been sold on the idea that more AI will be good for them or their families or communities personally. Instead all they hear is AI taking away jobs, and AI preventing high schoolers and college kids from learning how to read a book and write an essay. Most people think a world with…

I don't understand why it's being fought by left-leaning, many self-proclaimed communists that have been fighting for a world where we just hang out and make shitty art all day.

Isn't AI the only way we get to that? Who is gonna do actual important work otherwise?

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#60

Post by Gander5739 »

agentultra wrote: post #22

> just about everything in modern life, from streaming Netflix to running a dishwasher, consumes water at levels that can be portrayed as wasteful by hair-shirt environmentalists. Ad-hominems in an Economist article. This reads more like an opinion piece than reporting. There are plenty of documented problems with water usage of data centres. Some can use it efficiently but it costs more to do so and many (most?) do…

> This reads more like an opinion piece than reporting.

That is the style of articles (interpretive analysis) that The Economist does.

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