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I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

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Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#61

Post by sersi »

swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #50
wojciii wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I support equality between biological sexes this had some ill effects. Giving birth is a woman job. Breastfeeding is a woman's job. Replacing breast milk with something else might be one of the causes of allergies and other ill effects (I'm guessing). To me it looks like women want to be compensated for the unpaid work of birthing children and taking care of them during their upbringing. No one fucking likes un…

Isn’t being a stay at home wife being compensated to do that work? Your bills and mortgage are paid for, so is the food. You get to spend time with the kids. Sounds way less stressful than a high stakes job.

You also have no way to get out of a bad relationship if things turn sour. Being stay at home is extremely risky, you give up freedom.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#62

Post by graemep »

swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #56
dash2 wrote: post #4

Here’s a thesis: the feminism of the 70s was a reaction specifically to the trends of the 60s. You can see this here in 2 places: the double standard and easy acceptance of male infidelity; and attitudes to divorce.

The trope of society praising male promiscuity is largely an invention of the 20th century. Biblical and Hebrew texts all encourage punishment of both man and woman in instances of adultery. As a man I don’t like promiscuous men because they’re competition. I don’t want to introduce my female friends to them because they’re not relationship material, and I don’t find them trustworthy as a wingman. Call it jealousy, b…

On the other hand most societies are more tolerant of male promiscuity.

You accept its a feature of the modern west. It goes back to at least early modern times when at the very least it was routine for the aristocracy to keep mistresses. The Romans definitely expected fidelity from wives but not from husbands. Even today Middle Eastern cultures which criminalise female infidelity tolerate it from men. Greater tolerance of male than female infidelity is true of South Asia too.

I know the Christian attitude was that both were equally wrong, but that was, for most cultures, a radical change from the previous attitude and I doubt it was every completely accepted. I do not know what the Old Testament attitude was, but, again, I would ask whether it was really 100% accepted that punishmets should be equal.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#63

Post by noosphr »

wojciii wrote: post #40
disdegeneration wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The social mechanics to decouple woman permanently from reproduction are already in the making. Incubators and AI educators and people can have children with a company, the rest of the social problems (the social network harem effect) then go out the window. If you need to be a millionaire to have a conventional family, tradition is out, corporate cloning is in. The working alternative to religious fundamentalism.

While I support equality between biological sexes this had some ill effects. Giving birth is a woman job. Breastfeeding is a woman's job. Replacing breast milk with something else might be one of the causes of allergies and other ill effects (I'm guessing). To me it looks like women want to be compensated for the unpaid work of birthing children and taking care of them during their upbringing. No one fucking likes un…

Given that surrogacy runs to 20-80k for the woman carrying the child I don't think women will appreciate their new wages if we convert all social relations into market ones.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#64

Post by hypfer »

sersi wrote: post #61
swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t being a stay at home wife being compensated to do that work? Your bills and mortgage are paid for, so is the food. You get to spend time with the kids. Sounds way less stressful than a high stakes job.

You also have no way to get out of a bad relationship if things turn sour. Being stay at home is extremely risky, you give up freedom.

Tbf, that's a very "modern"-ish way of viewing the idea of "committing".

And there are good reasons for that, of course, but with that thinking, you're always going to be not fully there, which might be harmful in different ways than the ways it tries to protect against.

It's a hard problem to solve, because Humans and interpersonal stuff is hard, but, ideally, one would frontload the friction, so that there is no need to keep an out on hot standby.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#65

Post by graemep »

sersi wrote: post #31
marttt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... And be praised whenever a diaper is changed or I fetch the little one from school. I may be calling names now, but maybe this is an unnecessary "oldschool" meme that should already be forgotten. In my country (Estonia), I don't see dads actually being praised for every small childcare chore they courageously complete. Nobody does that, really. It's more like a meme that e.g. feminists love to bring about and ke…

I'm in Hong Kong, fathers do get praised for childcare chores but it also comes with a downside. Despite being very active in my school PTA, being one of the only fathers being a "Class Parent", and spending a lot more time at my son's school, whenever my son is hurt the reflex they have is to always call the mother. And that's despite the fact that everytime my wife tells them to call me. They praise dads for being…

In the UK someone described me as a "mothering" father. i.e. people (and very nice people) struggle with finding the vocabulary to describe men looking after children.

its changing slowly but we are very far from society accepting men as equal parents.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#66

Post by noduerme »

sekh60 wrote: post #51
noduerme wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hm. I don't know why you couldn't be a great father. In the sense you're talking about. I know it would come with the physical baggage (or not, if you adopt?) A friend I love dearly is raising a 3 year old little girl... she never expected to get pregnant at 42... and she is as much a father as a mother. She lets the girl play in mud puddles while other parents stare, and collect bugs, and go look at art in museums.…

My brother is the fun uncle of my daughter. Know the fun uncle is always appreciated. You should visit them soon :) And tell my brother to get back here for his overdue visit.

Hehe aww, thanks. Can't tell ya how much I love those kids. They're 4 and 6. The boy is just obsessed with baseball. They live down in LA, I'm in PDX. When they come up here, they get so excited like I'm the best part of visiting Portland, and when I'm heading down my bro tells them I'm coming and they just wanna tell me jokes or sing songs or shoot hoops. (I'm always raising the basket hahah). It is seriously the ultra light easy version of not having kids but just seeing them at their best. lol. They're best friends. My brother and his wife tell me they're never that chill with each other except when they want to impress me. But my brother and his wife, they astonish me all the time with the patience and attention they show the kids.

Anyway, your bro is missing out. Send him an invitation.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#67

Post by sire-vc »

noosphr wrote: post #59
swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trope of society praising male promiscuity is largely an invention of the 20th century. Biblical and Hebrew texts all encourage punishment of both man and woman in instances of adultery. As a man I don’t like promiscuous men because they’re competition. I don’t want to introduce my female friends to them because they’re not relationship material, and I don’t find them trustworthy as a wingman. Call it jealousy, b…

How many concubines did Solomon have?

300 wives and 700 concubines. His taking of 'foreign wives' who turned him to idols was listed as one of the main reasons God was unhappy with him, indicating what the scribe thought about this.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#68

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #50
wojciii wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I support equality between biological sexes this had some ill effects. Giving birth is a woman job. Breastfeeding is a woman's job. Replacing breast milk with something else might be one of the causes of allergies and other ill effects (I'm guessing). To me it looks like women want to be compensated for the unpaid work of birthing children and taking care of them during their upbringing. No one fucking likes un…

Isn’t being a stay at home wife being compensated to do that work? Your bills and mortgage are paid for, so is the food. You get to spend time with the kids. Sounds way less stressful than a high stakes job.

> Sounds way less stressful than a high stakes job.

If it's by choice, then yes. Otherwise, it could be really bad.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#69

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

graemep wrote: post #62
swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trope of society praising male promiscuity is largely an invention of the 20th century. Biblical and Hebrew texts all encourage punishment of both man and woman in instances of adultery. As a man I don’t like promiscuous men because they’re competition. I don’t want to introduce my female friends to them because they’re not relationship material, and I don’t find them trustworthy as a wingman. Call it jealousy, b…

On the other hand most societies are more tolerant of male promiscuity. You accept its a feature of the modern west. It goes back to at least early modern times when at the very least it was routine for the aristocracy to keep mistresses. The Romans definitely expected fidelity from wives but not from husbands. Even today Middle Eastern cultures which criminalise female infidelity tolerate it from men. Greater tolera…

> On the other hand most societies are more tolerant of male promiscuity.

Quotation needed.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#70

Post by sersi »

hypfer wrote: post #64
sersi wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also have no way to get out of a bad relationship if things turn sour. Being stay at home is extremely risky, you give up freedom.

Tbf, that's a very "modern"-ish way of viewing the idea of "committing". And there are good reasons for that, of course, but with that thinking, you're always going to be not fully there, which might be harmful in different ways than the ways it tries to protect against. It's a hard problem to solve, because Humans and interpersonal stuff is hard, but, ideally, one would frontload the friction, so that there is no ne…

Sure in our modern era there are a lot more divorce and it's probably partly because people are less inclined to make efforts to stay in a relationship. But there's also statistically less abuse and domestic violence and that's partly because women by and large have a lot more options than they used to.

I don't think the trade off of having less divorce and more long lasting relationships is worth the increase of domestic violence and abuse so I do believe that people in any relationship should have an out (even if it's not in case of abuse or a breakdown of a relationship but instead for supporting oneself after the death of the only parent bring money home).

That still means that I would teach my kid that the secret behind any successful relationship is to make efforts and that one should not give up at the first problem but you never know what the future might bring and having some way out is always useful

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