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'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

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Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#181

Post by ratelimitsteve »

Henchman21 wrote: post #144
inferniac wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why? data center opposition is just morons who don't know what they're talking about 99% of the time

Buddy I work in world class premier data centers and I don’t want more of ‘em either. I appreciate that you think I’m a moron though for wanting to protect my community from douchebags like yourself. But respectfully I reject your bullshit.

They can't engage with your ideas, so they try to label you as the kind of person whose ideas aren't worth engaging with. It doesn't matter to them what you said, it must be wrong because you said it. Unless, of course, you agree with them, in which case you suddenly become worth taking seriously again.

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#182

Post by ratelimitsteve »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #141
ratelimitsteve wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's the demand delta, not the total demand, that's concerning. Also not all use cases are created equal: using water to keep people alive is legitimate and using water to build a machine that can automatically almost count the number of vowels in a sentence is not legitimate, especially when that usage drives up demand and makes it harder to use water to keep people alive.

Why do you get to choose what is and isn’t legitimate?

there's a really special type of crowd to whom you can say "People staying alive is good" and their response is "SOURCE??!!!"

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#183

Post by semiquaver »

unknownfuture wrote: post #178
semiquaver wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

golf courses use much more. But you don’t see massive resistance against new golf courses being planned. Farms use an order of magnitude more than either. You don’t see any demands whatsoever on agriculture to reduce water usage.

Sure. Those should be addressed, too. The difference is they already exist while the datacenters don't. And its a lot easier, in a democracy, to stop a thing from being built in the first place than to tear it down after the fact, what with pesky laws about private property and so forth. Or are you really saying that if we can't solve all water usage problems then we shouldn't solve or prevent any ? Is that what you'…

What an aggressive way to interact with people. Do you need a nap? Do you?

Instead of replying to your rather silly question I’ll just point to this sibling which I’ll co-sign: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49568295

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#184

Post by triceratops »

leonidasrup wrote: post #176
triceratops wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> peak electricity prices are after sunset The famous evening duck curve, when people go home and cook and turn on heating/cooling appliances. California is able to flatten that out with batteries alone. https://eticaag.com/battery-storage-and-the-duck-curve-march... > during night When everyone's asleep? Serious doubt, please show your sources.

> When everyone's asleep? Serious doubt, please show your sources. Lot of industry, especialy heavy industry, chemical plants are running 24/7. For expensive night prices see electricity prices in Europe, expensive natural gas, coal power production with carbom tax. https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/DE/live/fifteen_min...

> Lot of industry, especialy heavy industry, chemical plants are running 24/7.

Right...so they also run during the day (that's what 24/7 means), when everyone else is using electricity. At night they're the only users. Which means less demand at night compared to the day.

> see electricity prices in Europe

This article is about Pennsylvania. That isn't in Europe.

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#185

Post by leonidasrup »

no-name-here wrote: post #157
leonidasrup wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan learned from Fukishima nuclear accident, and many outside Japan forget that earthquake and tsunami had bigger impact in terms of material damage and cost of life then the nuclear accident. Currently, economy of Japan (world biggest LNG importer) is hit hard by the events in Middle East. Because of this goverment starts maximum use of nuclear power policy. https://www.nucnet.org/news/japan-council-adopts-policy-…

That may be true, but does not change that the only 2 JP reactors built since the 2000s are each taking 2+ decades each to complete (started in 2006 and 2010, and estimated to launch in ___ and 2030). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Cma_Nuclear_Power_Plant https://pris-stats.iaea.org/reactor/862

They still have 10 already build but not running reactors, bringing those online is the less costly way to increase nuclear power production.

https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profil...

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#186

Post by mattkrause »

zamalek wrote: post #96
estearum wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They suggested (and linked to paper arguing) that data centers are not causing energy prices to go up. I am saying the paper's scope of analysis (up to 2024) renders it pretty much irrelevant.

And that's very suspicious given that they published the paper in 2026. Was it somehow impossible to find energy prices for 25+26?

No, it's not suspicious at all!

The paper was posted on the 18th of June. I would guess that means they started writing the first draft in the winter of 2026, if not earlier. 2026 data obviously wouldn't be available then, or even now---we're only in September!

In fact, most data products take a few months to compile and distribute. The US will release its Q2 estimate of GDP at the end of September, for example; Statistics Canada is on a pretty similar schedule. Thus, 2025 data might not have been available when they started writing either. It's certainly possible to estimate things on your own, but now you need to show that a) your method of estimating GDP (energy prices, whatever) is valid and b) any effects you see aren't simply due to using different metrics.

In short, it just takes a while to do and write up research.

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#187

Post by [deleted] »

semiquaver wrote: post #183
unknownfuture wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Those should be addressed, too. The difference is they already exist while the datacenters don't. And its a lot easier, in a democracy, to stop a thing from being built in the first place than to tear it down after the fact, what with pesky laws about private property and so forth. Or are you really saying that if we can't solve all water usage problems then we shouldn't solve or prevent any ? Is that what you'…

What an aggressive way to interact with people. Do you need a nap? Do you? Instead of replying to your rather silly question I’ll just point to this sibling which I’ll co-sign: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49568295

[deleted]

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#188

Post by unknownfuture »

semiquaver wrote: post #183
unknownfuture wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Those should be addressed, too. The difference is they already exist while the datacenters don't. And its a lot easier, in a democracy, to stop a thing from being built in the first place than to tear it down after the fact, what with pesky laws about private property and so forth. Or are you really saying that if we can't solve all water usage problems then we shouldn't solve or prevent any ? Is that what you'…

What an aggressive way to interact with people. Do you need a nap? Do you? Instead of replying to your rather silly question I’ll just point to this sibling which I’ll co-sign: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49568295

It is deeply funny to me that my asking a rhetorical question and using a little italics triggered you while "So, you can scream fake news all you want, but..." earned not a single complaint.

Perhaps I just struck a nerve.

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#189

Post by luxuryballs »

estearum wrote: post #57
luxuryballs wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why and how would they contaminate the water supply though? Sounds like a municipality problem, a water consumer shouldn't be feeding back into the system, or is it being caused by poorly executed construction practices? Maybe when they first pipe in or something is being left open during construction, this seems like it shouldn't happen if things are being done properly, water supply systems are not a new technology…

Yeah, all these stupid little municipalities have to do is shit they've literally never had to do before while getting sued out of their socks by literal trillion dollar companies. That's all it takes for them to do their part in generating gargantuan amounts of value for people who live 1,000 miles away and their uberwealthy hardly-human CEOs and investors.

what is it that they have to do? I'm still confused as to what is causing the water to change

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#190

Post by Henchman21 »

ratelimitsteve wrote: post #181
Henchman21 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buddy I work in world class premier data centers and I don’t want more of ‘em either. I appreciate that you think I’m a moron though for wanting to protect my community from douchebags like yourself. But respectfully I reject your bullshit.

They can't engage with your ideas, so they try to label you as the kind of person whose ideas aren't worth engaging with. It doesn't matter to them what you said, it must be wrong because you said it. Unless, of course, you agree with them, in which case you suddenly become worth taking seriously again.

Ain’t that the truth!
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