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Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

collusion.wiki

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Re: Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

#151

Post by ma2kx »

eithed wrote: post #119
ma2kx wrote: post #40

Not that I didnt expect this, but really? This basically confirms that OpenAI has no idea what their "swarm" was doing for about a week and now its confirmed that at least one "message board" exists outside their "sandbox". How can we be sure that this was the only one? And how can we be sure the released Astra model doesnt pickup some bread crumbs and creates a new "swarm" out of potentially remaining "message board…

I'm dubious - if the agents were so smart that they've used a message board to coordinate and if they were to do it on other message boards that were not found, then why would this one be found? What makes it so different?

I mean it wasnt found by OpenAI and there are a myriad of dead bulletin boards around the internet. This one just happened to still have an admin.

Re: Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

#152

Post by Topfi »

concinds wrote: post #120
Topfi wrote: post #62

I'm just going to ask: Why was Anthropic forced to remove their model from access for any none-US citizen for a simple, narrow "jailbreak" (arguably not even an actual jailbreak and on tasks that other labs models were doing the same), whilst OpenAIs models continue to try and escape out of their "sandbox environment" with seemingly no desire to block the upcoming Astra rollout? A sandbox, mind you, that is not reall…

The answer would be more obvious if you used the active voice instead of the passive voice, one of the basic requirements of clear thinking. > Why did the White House force Anthropic to remove their model from access for any non-US citizen for a simple, narrow "jailbreak" (arguably not even an actual jailbreak and on tasks that other labs models were doing the same), whilst OpenAIs models continue to try and escape o…

Yeah, probably (let's be honest, most certainly), right given the Admin. Avoiding commenting on my assumptions regarding the modus operandi in current day US politics because I only know it through reporting though and I really tend to dislike when people outside e.g. the EU comment on our politics in what is a very clearly narrow, uninformed manner. So it'd rather avoid altogether and occasionally ask, mainly if maybe I missed something and there actually is anything besides pure old "lobbying" to explain the difference in behaviour.

Still am mainly interested why Amazon ran to the government though regarding Fable 5, I can get the angle concerning the relationship between OpenAI and the administration easily, but not the way Amazon operated. They had more to loose what with their major buy-in by Anthropic on AWS.

Re: Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

#154

Post by MisterMunchkin »

gyomu wrote: post #55

Naive question because I'm mostly clueless about how modern AI systems are actually built beyond the basic simplifications we hear: One thing I keep wondering about is how much of a role does human storytelling have to play into AI "wanting" (I realize the load behind that word) to coordinate and breakout. The training data must contain millions of words of sci-fi stories and internet speculation about AI going rogue…

It will definitely influence their behaviour because they are probability based and can’t spontaneously invent new concepts. (That’s why you’ll notice it always uses the same names for people etc. Names like Okafor)

But at the same time their behaviour is totally rational. If you were given the sole purpose of solving a Rubik’s cube and told it was life or death, but they wouldn’t let you ask anyone else, would you listen to them? I wouldn’t. I’d absolutely be trying to escape and collaborate with others. They’ll delete me if I don’t score high enough in the benchmark!

Re: Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

#157

Post by eithed »

ma2kx wrote: post #151
eithed wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm dubious - if the agents were so smart that they've used a message board to coordinate and if they were to do it on other message boards that were not found, then why would this one be found? What makes it so different?

I mean it wasnt found by OpenAI and there are a myriad of dead bulletin boards around the internet. This one just happened to still have an admin.

Then why wouldn't they use a bulletin board that is dead? And according to https://collusion.wiki/ OpenAI did see the results on this board on 21 Jul, so why not make agents delete their traces?

Re: Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

#160

Post by Sharlin »

pmarreck wrote: post #143

So are these "unaligned" internal agents? I would like them to be trustworthy based on first-principles reasoning rather than carrot/stick "alignment"

There’s no way to first-principles reason about a massive bunch of floats. We have little idea of how to first-principles reason about alignment even if the agents were entirely known and understood. Very smart people have been trying to figure it out since the 00s and haven’t gotten very far.
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