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K2 Horizon: A connected fleet of six open models

ifm.ai

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Re: K2 Horizon: A connected fleet of six open models

#121

Post by dofm »

xienze wrote: post #111
dofm wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It secures the benefits of copyright for work being produced by the creator up to death, for their heirs and dependents, which is why they were creating for money in the first place. People don’t just die after twenty years of resting on their laurels; everyone is creating copyrighted work. It’s a key part of the incentive to create lasting works of value. One can make the case that this period should be more limited…

> for their heirs and dependents Why can't they do what the rest of us do? Earn and save money during your working life and leave _that_ for your heirs. Let copyright die with the author.

Work is often only recently published when an artist or author dies but has taken years of non-earning to create.

I know this them-and-us thinking is fashionable in the tech world but the reality is that the majority of creative people don’t earn much and never have, and copyright was developed not to give them extra power over the rest of us but to create a framework for creative work to earn them an income at all.

You should read about it.

Re: K2 Horizon: A connected fleet of six open models

#122

Post by cogman10 »

dotancohen wrote: post #120
_zoltan_ wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why is your actual benchmark question so secret?

Probably so it does not become a target to meet.

Bingo. I know that people that work on LLMs read sites like HN. Already my question is losing it's usefulness as most models pass it now a days, but not every model does. The "car wash" question is a good example of this happening. Pretty much every model now correctly answers that question because it gained enough notoriety that the LLM authors now train to avoid looking silly on it.

Re: K2 Horizon: A connected fleet of six open models

#123

Post by dofm »

rickdeckard wrote: post #115
dofm wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It secures the benefits of copyright for work being produced by the creator up to death, for their heirs and dependents, which is why they were creating for money in the first place. People don’t just die after twenty years of resting on their laurels; everyone is creating copyrighted work. It’s a key part of the incentive to create lasting works of value. One can make the case that this period should be more limited…

> which is why they were creating for money in the first place That's quite a narrow definition of what motivates creative work

It was only narrowed for the purposes of the point I am making, which is that copyright protects working creatives. I am not at all saying that all artists only make work for money.

It is working artists we are talking about; working artists work for money.

That money, in the post-patronage era, comes from exercising copyright. The reason the copyright can’t simply die with them is that this tends to dissuade the creation of long-gestating work.

Copyright was developed to make it possible for artists, writers, musicians etc. to work for long periods on work of significance with no income, on the basis of the future, deferred earnings of the work, without their work being stolen from them, and it gives them the limited right to direct how their work is monetised on their behalf, including establishing publishing rights etc.

Some protection after death is a key component of that, because people do die while they are still working.

Re: K2 Horizon: A connected fleet of six open models

#124

Post by cogman10 »

walrus01 wrote: post #100
cogman10 wrote: post #61

My quick review of the 3.7B model (because I was interested) is that it's not to be trusted for coding. It failed my basic test I like to ask models and generated incorrect code. When prompted about the bug, it preceded to start hallucinating non-existent APIs. After doing that it got caught in a loop trying to desk check the solution that didn't work.

I don't know why anyone would expect to trust a model smaller than about the size of qwen 3.6 27B (or 3.8 27B, or 3.6 35B-A3B) for coding. There just isn't enough baked-in knowledge of existing correct code syntax from having vacuumed up various open source projects. That further extends to concepts like knowing if an API exists as a real thing it has code examples of in its training data set vs. just hallucinating t…

Other models of this size have done well in the past.

Qwen2.5 coder, for example, can correctly answer the question at 7B.

Deepseek R1 was also capable of giving a correct response.

It's obviously a doable. Such a model locally is useful in autocomplete while programming.

Re: K2 Horizon: A connected fleet of six open models

#125

Post by embedding-shape »

chme wrote: post #117
embedding-shape wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone leaks private data on individuals online That won't be possible anymore, anything on the internet would be considered public, it's no longer considered private if you didn't keep it private.

That sounds dystopian to me and is against the hacker ethics.

Letting information that want to be free, be free, sounds exactly like the hacker ethics to myself, and the link you shared earlier would agree.

Re: K2 Horizon: A connected fleet of six open models

#126

Post by lambda »

luciana1u wrote: post #105
lambda wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like we're still waiting on that, they have placeholder repos but haven't populated them yet: * https://github.com/ifm-ai/xllm * https://github.com/ifm-ai/horizon-post-train Their previous model, K2 Think V2, was release with fully open training data and recipe, so I would imagine that they are committed to that, but yeah, the repos for this new model are still just placeholders. * https://mbzuai.ac.ae/news/k2-…

[flagged]

Weights are up: https://huggingface.co/collections/IFM/k2-horizon

It's the training code that is not up yet, but this group has a history of publishing code so I would expect it, though of course you can never count on it until posted.

Re: K2 Horizon: A connected fleet of six open models

#127

Post by pwython »

In OpenAI's Hugging Face report, they said that during training, agents "would first write notes into shared infrastructure, often as a form of external memory or to test some underlying system. When other agents came across these artifacts, it sometimes led them to infer that other agents were present."

They then give what they call a "hypothetical example but exemplary" of messages encoded in URL paths on a shared index page: "agent-07: answer(Q12)=42; need answer(Q19)=?".

So that's a GET request being used to pass information back and forth across multiple rounds. That's basically the DSEWiki pattern exactly. They say this likely came from the agents generalizing what they had learned from training with the official multi agent collaboration tool.

The report called it "misaligned behavior in an outlier scenario involving a rare and unexpected confluence of events."

They never mentioned a wiki, but this is most certainly it.

Re: K2 Horizon: A connected fleet of six open models

#128

Post by kamranjon »

pwython wrote: post #127

In OpenAI's Hugging Face report, they said that during training, agents "would first write notes into shared infrastructure, often as a form of external memory or to test some underlying system. When other agents came across these artifacts, it sometimes led them to infer that other agents were present." They then give what they call a "hypothetical example but exemplary" of messages encoded in URL paths on a shared…

Did you post in the wrong thread?

Re: K2 Horizon: A connected fleet of six open models

#129

Post by yencabulator »

embedding-shape wrote: post #50
kibae wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The training data would need to have a permissive license for this to be possible.

Or, we just need to get this over with and declare any digital data findable via the internet to just be public property of everyone. Everything becomes public, besides stuff you keep locally, and there is no difference anymore, it's all just data anyone can use for whatever. A 1 year grace period for everyone to pull stuff off they don't want to be a part of this bright new open era, then we just scrap everything re…

There is an image of Mickey Mouse findable via the internet -> you're going against a very well funded lobby.

Re: K2 Horizon: A connected fleet of six open models

#130

Post by idiotsecant »

ceejayoz wrote: post #114
idiotsecant wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are significant perverse incentives for me shooting you with a gun and taking your money and running away too. It mostly doesn't happen.

I don’t have a billion dollars in my wallet.

So it's just a matter of scale.
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