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Gloria Steinem has died

theguardian.com

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Re: Gloria Steinem has died

#81

Post by RajT88 »

nstents wrote: post #74
RajT88 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From your perspective it may reflexively seem that women carry zero responsibility for other people's actions in the example you give Trying to put the focus on the victim's actions and not the criminal's actions is called, "blaming the victim" and it's not an appropriate attitude for people in law enforcement especially to have. And yet - these sorts of stories where reports are dismissed for various reasons (incl…

I'm not sure I see the rationale behind your response. Could you please let me know where I victim blamed, rather than endorsed personal responsibility for one's own wellbeing? Is there no case to be made against the well dressed, well adorned man, leaking money from his pockets going into a violent slum? Has he zero responsibility for not metaphorically fastening his seat belt against the bad drivers? The context fo…

I can help explain.

When I said this:

> Trying to put the focus on the victim's actions and not the criminal's actions is called, "blaming the victim"

That's exactly what you're doing here - shifting the focus of debate to be about the victim's actions and not that of the perpetrator:

> From your perspective it may reflexively seem that women carry zero responsibility for other people's actions in the example you give. Yet at the same time a woman most certainly has a responsibility to herself, her future self who would have to live with the trauma...the many types of trauma...for knowingly going to an environment expected to harbor severe threats from other people.

I think you'd probably agree that regardless of the actions of the victim, the perpetrator of the crime owns most or all of the blame. Right? To be clear, there's no scenario where you think the victim deserves most of the blame and not the attacker, right?

If all that is true, why die on this hill? Why are you making this conversation about how women choose to dress? Unless it's not true. You tell me.

Re: Gloria Steinem has died

#82

Post by bjornnn »

dang wrote: post #80
bjornnn wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we all know how passionate the hackernews community have always been about the integrity of european progressive activist groups, it's practically all anyone talks about on here

Can you please transmute your frustration into thoughtful, interesting comments, rather than venting it into putdowns of others? Since you're posting here, you're as much "the hackernews community" as the rest of us. The intention of the site is clear: curious, substantive conversation ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ). We know better than anyone how easy it is to get derailed from this, but really…

you got it, boss!

Re: Gloria Steinem has died

#83

Post by Lerc »

dang wrote: post #72
Lerc wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the topic of the sibling reply to this. There are quite a few new accounts that immediately go on attack on a few topics and individuals. I don't suppose you have any numbers of the ratio of IP addresses to attack accounts?

Not really, but occasionally the accounts are so similar that we can tell they're related. Which ones are you thinking of? If you don't want to specify usernames here, emailing hn@ycombinator.com would be appreciated.

Well it's hard to name them because the names keep changing.

There's a few that are just going for random letters, and simonw's stalker seems to pick a new name for the moment, but isn't really dedicated enough to match Simons volume, so they can get a bit lost.

I guess it would just be reassuring to think that they number very few.

Re: Gloria Steinem has died

#84

Post by dang »

Lerc wrote: post #83
dang wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, but occasionally the accounts are so similar that we can tell they're related. Which ones are you thinking of? If you don't want to specify usernames here, emailing hn@ycombinator.com would be appreciated.

Well it's hard to name them because the names keep changing. There's a few that are just going for random letters, and simonw's stalker seems to pick a new name for the moment, but isn't really dedicated enough to match Simons volume, so they can get a bit lost. I guess it would just be reassuring to think that they number very few.

I'm afraid there are multiple simonstalkers. He holds up rather well under it all

Re: Gloria Steinem has died

#87

Post by slater »

DangIsStillABit wrote: post #86
dang wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We ban your accounts because you regularly create accounts to break the HN guidelines. That's obviously not ok and it has nothing to do with whom you're replying to.

[flagged]

> How do you know who is the same person

imma guess they see the individual accounts' IP addresses

Re: Gloria Steinem has died

#88

Post by WtfDang »

dang wrote: post #73
mhashemi wrote: post #56

[flagged]

That is the internet being internet. But adding a putdown on top just gets us further stuck in failure mode. It would be better to contribute something substantive about Steinem. Obviously there is much to discuss there.

What kind of criticism is this?

Is it now HN policy to micromanage every perspective?

Re: Gloria Steinem has died

#89

Post by impossiblefork »

krautburglar wrote: post #68
impossiblefork wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and people understood it as it happened. There's a Swedish song, which sees it like this "daghemmets utbygnadstakt regleras av konjunkturen, så tillmäts kvinnan sin plats i den ekonomiska strukturen, en billig arbetskraftsreserv till hands när fabrikerna visslarn, tillbakapressad av daghemsbrist, om lönsamhetens drivhjul plötsligt gnisslar" "The extension of day care is controlled by the economic demand, so woma…

I don't have an opinion on pro/anti feminism. I have a big opinion on paid mass manipulators -- especially ones being paid with public funds. It is outrageous --- that they steal our money, then have the gall to propagandize us with it. That they had her operate out of Europe also illustrates how they managed to work around Smith-Mundt at the time.

Yes, I'm specifically talking about the song.

If propaganda is to be used, it should be to inform the public without deception as to the sender or the purpose, not used to push a political position with public money with deception about the sender or the purpose.

Re: Gloria Steinem has died

#90

Post by pstuart »

paimapi wrote: post #32
pstuart wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right wing talking points. They see feminism as a threat (which it is to them , but for the good overall).

it really isn't - it's well-documented: https://uscpublicdiplomacy.org/blog/feminist-was-spy "While popularly pilloried because of her paymaster, Steinem defended the CIA relationship, saying: “In my experience The Agency was completely different from its image; it was liberal, nonviolent and honorable.” Less cloak-and-dagger and more a young, energetic, global representative for American values and freedom" was part…

  [0] meh, what's the point?
  [1] was coming from a Marxist, and Marxists are going to Marxist.
  [2] had nothing about feminism
You're trying to muddy the waters with your positioning. Women's rights are just that. Commingling the concept with economic theory, other civil rights movements, government propaganda, etc doesn't detract from the core concept of: should women be second class citizens in this world?

And another commenter talked about rights as being via the State, but in the end, rights are freedoms, and in the concept of the State it's a handshake agreement that the State will honor those freedoms.

Those same rights are also being challenged by religious doctrine (arguably the State in earlier times).

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