21–30 of 190 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, so calling it a "defeat" is improper to me.
The headline is misleading, but this is still huge. 2 stones against katago is insane, I'd never have guessed we'd see that, ever.
> The professional human team begins from a legal eight-to-ten-minute game state in which it has decisively won the laning stage: roughly a 6,000–8,000 team-net-worth lead, a 4,000–6,000 team-XP lead, two enemy Tier 1 towers destroyed, the third badly damaged, and all three friendly Tier 1 towers standing.
It's never made sense to me that so many go players study AI go play in the hope of emulating it in a human game. We're not machines. We can't do thousands of Monte Carlo tree searches per second.
It’s worth understanding that Shin Jinse has been significantly stronger than his nearest human opponents for a while now, more so than Magnus was even at his very peak. In go ELO like scoring he’s something like 120 points over the next strongest player. No other player has ever broken a 3800 rating let alone 3850. Ke Jie (the previous long time champion) peaked at 3755. Shin Jinseo’s strength graph is the most absu…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
For a non-Go player, do you think this trend will persist, or is it more of a dead-cat/human bounce?
On one hand, Shin Jinseo is an outlier player of this generation. On the other hand, the newest generation of new pros will have exclusively learned by using the AI to tell them what the best move is, so there's reason to believe that peak human level has yet to be reached.
KataGo isn't very good at exploiting weaker opponents. In chess people were convinced a grandmaster can never be beaten with a knight odds. It's just too easy to simplify the position and win. It was very easy (for a grandmaster) vs already super human Stockfish. It was still kinda easy (for a strong GM) vs 200+ ELO stronger NNUE Stockfish. And then someone made a net optimized for exploiting humans. Its games are am…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Also, the human played a strategy tailored to that huge initial advantage. He said that the AI did not handle this particularly well, and played high probability moves instead of trying to lure him into a mistake. Yeah, katago's training is not really focused at all on handicap games, because it's by nature learning from even games against similar-strength opponents. It doesn't have specific training from playing i…
While AlphaGo originally only had win rate as a metric, modern Go AIs have more knobs, including an evaluation of "complexity". Just stating this off the top of my head so I could be misremembering, but I heard that the KataGo settings used were tweaked to favor complexity. This was most apparent in Game 1 which Shin Jinseo lost, where the AI had an unusual opening. However, the last game was quite plain leading me t…
It’s worth understanding that Shin Jinse has been significantly stronger than his nearest human opponents for a while now, more so than Magnus was even at his very peak. In go ELO like scoring he’s something like 120 points over the next strongest player. No other player has ever broken a 3800 rating let alone 3850. Ke Jie (the previous long time champion) peaked at 3755. Shin Jinseo’s strength graph is the most absu…
I recall a while back someone came up with a set of "anti-computer" strategies that allowed even an amateur to defeat a strong go program. These moves weren't anything like ordinary go moves (and perhaps the "loophole" has been closed now) but imo, their existence suggests that a study of programs may reveal other unexpected weakness.
It’s worth understanding that Shin Jinse has been significantly stronger than his nearest human opponents for a while now, more so than Magnus was even at his very peak. In go ELO like scoring he’s something like 120 points over the next strongest player. No other player has ever broken a 3800 rating let alone 3850. Ke Jie (the previous long time champion) peaked at 3755. Shin Jinseo’s strength graph is the most absu…