Go grandmaster Shin defeats AI KataGo with a two-stone handicap
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Re: Go grandmaster Shin defeats AI KataGo with a two-stone handicap
#2For those who don’t follow human vs AI Go (I don’t), this is with a 2 stone handicap in favor of the human which is apparently standard.
Re: Go grandmaster Shin defeats AI KataGo with a two-stone handicap
#3I'm struggling to believe it's not good enough to beat a mere mortal.
Re: Go grandmaster Shin defeats AI KataGo with a two-stone handicap
#4Apparently 2 stones is a huge advantage. An estimate is that the computer is roughly 4-600 ELO stronger on an even match.
Also, the human played a strategy tailored to that huge initial advantage. He said that the AI did not handle this particularly well, and played high probability moves instead of trying to lure him into a mistake.
Also, even though this was the best Go engine, it was not running on a supercomputer, and had a relatively limited amount of time per move.
So, this was an important victory for a human, but not a sign that humans are now stronger than AIs at Go.
Re: Go grandmaster Shin defeats AI KataGo with a two-stone handicap
#5It’s worth understanding that Shin Jinse has been significantly stronger than his nearest human opponents for a while now, more so than Magnus was even at his very peak.
In go ELO like scoring he’s something like 120 points over the next strongest player. No other player has ever broken a 3800 rating let alone 3850. Ke Jie (the previous long time champion) peaked at 3755. Shin Jinseo’s strength graph is the most absurd straight line.
2 stones is historically the gap between a 9P ranked and a 1P ranked professional player (very roughly the gap between super grandmasters and an almost grandmaster)
That is to say it’s shocking that Katago (almost certainly significantly stronger than AlphaGo) is a mere 2 stones stronger than Shin Jinseo. I suspect it would be 3-4 stones vs any other human pro.
Re: Go grandmaster Shin defeats AI KataGo with a two-stone handicap
#6For those who don’t follow human vs AI Go (I don’t), this is with a 2 stone handicap in favor of the human which is apparently standard.
Yes, so calling it a "defeat" is improper to me.
Re: Go grandmaster Shin defeats AI KataGo with a two-stone handicap
#7What I found interesting was that he adapted and shifted to a very unconventional strategy of play, opposed to the AI who primarily seems to play high probability moves. Does this not demonstrate the human edge against AI in novel / unconventional thinking?
Re: Go grandmaster Shin defeats AI KataGo with a two-stone handicap
#8I'm struggling to believe it's not good enough to beat a mere mortal.
This was with a two-stone advantage for the strongest-ever human player, apparently.
Re: Go grandmaster Shin defeats AI KataGo with a two-stone handicap
#9Apparently 2 stones is a huge advantage. An estimate is that the computer is roughly 4-600 ELO stronger on an even match. Also, the human played a strategy tailored to that huge initial advantage. He said that the AI did not handle this particularly well, and played high probability moves instead of trying to lure him into a mistake. Also, even though this was the best Go engine, it was not running on a supercomputer…
> Also, the human played a strategy tailored to that huge initial advantage. He said that the AI did not handle this particularly well, and played high probability moves instead of trying to lure him into a mistake.
Yeah, katago's training is not really focused at all on handicap games, because it's by nature learning from even games against similar-strength opponents.
It doesn't have specific training from playing in a way to exploit a weaker player. In a handicap game you have to give your opponent opportunities to fuck up if you want to play optimally.
If a move loses 0.0005 points if the opponent plays optimally, katago won't play it even if there's ~zero chance a weaker player would play it right.
There have been go AIs that tried to train more directly on uneven opponents, one called "sai" comes to mind, but katago has huge advantages otherwise and won out over the others (for very good reason, it's a great project).
Re: Go grandmaster Shin defeats AI KataGo with a two-stone handicap
#10For those who don’t follow human vs AI Go (I don’t), this is with a 2 stone handicap in favor of the human which is apparently standard.
Yes, so calling it a "defeat" is improper to me.
The headline is misleading, but this is still huge. 2 stones against katago is insane, I'd never have guessed we'd see that, ever.