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Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

help.mistral.ai

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Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#181

Post by quadrifoliate »

teekert wrote: post #46
throwaway89201 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and at the same time seemed to have lost the ability to centrally disable training on prompts for your entire organization There is a toggle on https://admin.mistral.ai that allows you to disable training for both Vibe and Console/API for your entire organisation. And I'm not on the enterprise plan. I've disabled training the first time I created an account, and it has remained that way. You story is also very conf…

I don't have that toggle (but could indeed have sworn I saw it earlier). Sorry, I have always thought that "opting in" is, "opting for the presented option" and opting out is "opting out of it", so opting out [of sharing prompts for training] is choosing to not share, but apparently I was wrong my whole life. I'm not a native speaker, and I think most people here (in my country) would interpret this the way I do? Wei…

I think there is a simple, unambiguous way to describe this, which is to use the passive voice or an explicit subject with the past tense to clarify that you didn't do the opting in.

Saying "we were disappointed to be opted in to training by default" clarifies the point you're trying to make, which is that the toggle (whatever it may be called) was set to training by someone else, not you.

Actually in your case you'd say "...after being disappointed that the Pro tier opted us in to training on prompts by default", which gives an explicit subject ("the [Mistral] Pro tier"). No one will confuse that with the opposite "the Pro tier opted us out of training on prompts by default".

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#182

Post by vineyardmike »

20k wrote: post #160
r_lee wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly, I don't understand how HN doesn't understand this by this logic every business contract in tech is just a bunch of lies and means nothing and the only way to do anything is to have a server sitting next to you, otherwise it's "someone else's computer"

I mean, they've already violated the law in acquiring all their training data already, why would they be uncomfortable violating a contract to get more training data?

Because violating the law was the prerequisite to starting their business, without it they're worth $0 and have no models. They've already survived Training on customer input may help the models but it isn't "bet the farm" helpful. Now, they have a thriving business, so they shouldn't risk their business for incremental data that they can buy.

At this point, the reputation of the business matters too. Fable explicitly didn't support zero-retention usage, and it saw significantly lower adoption vs other flagship models, and their past releases. Being caught abusing enterprise contracts is really hard to dig out of.

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#183

Post by PotatoPrime »

F3nd0 wrote: post #121
brendoelfrendo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said "opt in to training on prompts by default," which is coherent English and perfectly fine. The phrases "opt in" and "opt out" will always be contextual based on what is being opted, so it really falls to the reader to pay attention to that context. Please don't give English language advice as though you are an authority; there is not a rule of the English language that would make their usage unacceptable.

Since the whole idea of ‘opt in’ is choosing to do something, the only reasonable interpretation of ‘opt in by default’ is that the default state requires you to make the choice yourself. However I try to bend my brain, sing the term ‘opt in’ for the exact opposite makes no sense whatsoever. Note that I’m not using English grammar as my argument; human language (and English especially) has plenty of exceptions and ex…

I read it as though he was trying to say '[you are] opt[ed] in by default'.

Now granted, he did not say that, and I only reached that conclusion by the rest of this conversation, but I think to have meant that and said '... was now also opt-in by default...' isn't unreasonable.

Just sharing since you mentioned you couldn't see how using that term for the opposite would make sense.

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#184

Post by addag »

20k wrote: post #140

You have to be rather naive if you don't think these companies don't simply train on your prompts with or without your consent. They literally scrape everything - legal or not - and claim its fair use to train on, including straight piracy The idea that they'll steal from everyone except you is just wishful thinking

And even if they are not doing it right now, they probably keep the history available for future training, "just in case".

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#185

Post by teekert »

lukan wrote: post #5
teekert wrote: post #2

Context: After careful research our organization preferred a European partner with good central privacy controls. We landed on Mistral, after being disappointed that the Pro tier was opt-in to training on prompts by default we switched up to the Team tier which provides an organization dashboard with some relevant settings. As we did that Mistral changed these options and the Team tier was now also opt-in by default…

"For contrast: Claude disables training on prompts for organizations starting from the 18 euro tier " In theory also for individuals? At least I have that toggle to deactivate that. But how would I ever know if they actually respect that?

This post is only about the defaults, and expectations therefore for Team and Enterprise plans and their organizational controls.

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#186

Post by teekert »

TZubiri wrote: post #99

i don't get the legal aspect of this if you sign the contract (click I agree on Terms of Service), and it says that they do not train on the data, by what right can they backtrack on that? Maybe it is assumed that they notified you and you have the right to terminate the contract? Relying on some clause where the contract can be updated at any time. Or terminated at any time (with the presumption that a clause change…

I think it only goes for new users/orgs. I was caught between the time they changed the default and updated their docs. I don't believe they would alter users/organizations exiting choices. In facts, from some of the responses it seems that some still retain the toggle to opt out their entire org.

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#188

Post by protocolture »

20k wrote: post #140

You have to be rather naive if you don't think these companies don't simply train on your prompts with or without your consent. They literally scrape everything - legal or not - and claim its fair use to train on, including straight piracy The idea that they'll steal from everyone except you is just wishful thinking

>You have to be rather naive if you don't think these companies don't simply train on your prompts with or without your consent. They literally scrape everything - legal or not - and claim its fair use to train on, including straight piracy

Have been having a think about this statement. I agree in intent, some of them are probably breaking the agreement for training data. I dont think Microsoft is doing it, Enterprise Data Protection is the plank holding up their entire Copilot line. One whiff and everyone's gone. Copilot isnt actually good at anything except giving some illusion of protection, and preventing users from following a desire path to other LLMs without enterprise data protection. Its the core value proposition. But we only need to wait and see what the next 20 data breaches tell us to find out for sure.

In detail however, I dont know if they could just claim it as fair use, after exclaiming that they specifically wont do that. I dont think "Fair Use" would be the issue so much as contract law. I know a EULA wouldnt hold up the other way (By reading this you agree not to steal my data and train an LLM with it) for data thats made freely available on the internet. But if you are purchasing the "No Training" contract they would be in breach if they trained with it. Possibly fair use would let them keep the data after paying whatever they owe in terms of contract breach.

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#189

Post by blub »

teekert wrote: post #55
Miraltar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you opt in it means that by default you're not in and you chose that option. So if you're now included in training by default, then it's an opt-out feature as in you can opt out of it.

Idk, feels like my brain does not have the model for this, this does not exist in my language afaik haha.

Replace opt with its equivalent “choose” and it becomes choose-(tobe-)in and choose-(tobe-)out.

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#190

Post by sn0n »

teekert wrote: post #55
Miraltar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you opt in it means that by default you're not in and you chose that option. So if you're now included in training by default, then it's an opt-out feature as in you can opt out of it.

Idk, feels like my brain does not have the model for this, this does not exist in my language afaik haha.

Just remember, good company’s leave them off by default. Bad companies will turn them on for you.
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