[flagged]
[flagged]
GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
71–80 of 175 posts
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#72[flagged]
So other projects are not supposed to critize Google? Graphene's focus is on security and they complain about lack of security in your products. Seems valid to me.
Also security and using non-Google OS are not niche usecases. I'm not sure how you are working on Android, the most popular OS while claiming security is a niche usecase. In fact, I have less confidence in security of your work.
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m in the process of switching from an iPhone to Graphene on a pixel 10 Pro. I can load apps from the web (disabled by default iirc), the local file system, a sandboxed instance of the Play store, Obtainium, f-droid, wherever. Took some getting used to, but it’s nice feeling like I actually control and can choose how my phone works.
I've done some research and am considering as well, though I might wait for the motorola phones to release. Have you encountered apps that didn't work? Like banking and stuff seems to break a lot of the time.
All percentages are made up but feel right to me.
90% of apps work, no finagling required
Next 6% might need some fancy setups, like setting up storage scopes or other privacy settings so they can function as expected. I won't pretend they are always intuitive, but if you really can't figure it out, someone on the internet has already had the issue and posted their solution online
Another 3% are your banking and similar apps. Some work, but some are needy, and I have these in another profile which has the sandboxed Google play mirror and other Google services that GrapheneOS mocks
Then is your last 1% that are so stubborn that not only require Google play, but they have the audacity to require you be logged in to Google play or they won't start. Personally, I just refuse to use these apps when I get one, as they are random dumb ones, like some incredibly privacy invading videogame app. However I'm sure there will be some app you find that is like this. I guess you can log in, or heck make a third profile and hopefully don't need that app often. I guarantee there is a friendlier alternative that is worth looking into if you do feel you really need that service.
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#74[flagged]
So other projects are not supposed to critize Google? Graphene's focus is on security and they complain about lack of security in your products. Seems valid to me. Also security and using non-Google OS are not niche usecases. I'm not sure how you are working on Android, the most popular OS while claiming security is a niche usecase. In fact, I have less confidence in security of your work.
[flagged]
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#75[flagged]
"I don't know anything but I don't like Graphene"
Well we know Google isn't enabling MTE, while LLM-enabled exploits are multiplying rapidly. Maybe you need to get back to work?
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#76It’s absurd that a small project like Graphene is able to run rings around a giant like Google in the security sphere. Almost makes you wonder if some of those vulnerabilities are intentionally allowed to exist. Vulnerabilities in the world’s most popular (by volume) mobile OS could provide a plausibly deniable global espionage backdoor.
Since GrapheneOS is building on something that Google is giving away for free, I do hope that they release something better. Everything else would be.. kind of weird, no?
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#77"Aside from MTE, Google downgraded the Pixel 11 series GPU compared to the Pixel 10 series in addition to reducing RAM for base Pro models." I will make a note not to buy this model. Is this the worst quality control lapse since the Huawei Nexus core failures?
This isn't a quality control issue, but a beancounter-chooses-cheaper-parts issue.
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Phones typically have 2 operating systems A separate OS runs the security chip (like Titan). Another could be running in EL3 (Trusted Execution Environment), yet many could be running in Realms (mutually untrusted VMs). The later stage bootloaders and some firmware (ex: GPUs) themselves could be considered OSes in their own right.
Also, the SIM card has its own operating system.
Also, most smartphones today have at least one browser installed, they're basically their own tiny little OSes at this point.
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#79It’s absurd that a small project like Graphene is able to run rings around a giant like Google in the security sphere. Almost makes you wonder if some of those vulnerabilities are intentionally allowed to exist. Vulnerabilities in the world’s most popular (by volume) mobile OS could provide a plausibly deniable global espionage backdoor.
The perception that they are able to run rings around Google is not necessarily an accurate one. There are tradeoffs in any engineering situation and GrapheneOS devs make different ones based on different requirements. Google is one of the reasons MTE even exists. I don't think GrapheneOS devs would be capable of helping push forward that technology in the same capacity.
Do we know if Google is operating on the frontier of the trade-off curve? What do we lose from Pixel Android when GrapheneOS security changes are made?
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#80It’s absurd that a small project like Graphene is able to run rings around a giant like Google in the security sphere. Almost makes you wonder if some of those vulnerabilities are intentionally allowed to exist. Vulnerabilities in the world’s most popular (by volume) mobile OS could provide a plausibly deniable global espionage backdoor.
Elsewhere in the thread, someone reports that with MTE enforcement enabled, there are lots of crashes. And app and system service developers don't seem responsive to them.
That's not something that's really acceptable on a $500+ phone... so if you're Google, you're not going to turn that on by default and you're not really going to be interested in keeping it as a feature that users can turn on.
Graphene has a different focus, so they can push the tradeoff towards enforcement and crashes rather than non enforcement and fewer crashes.
Google could perhaps do more with their crash logs and pushing app developers to fix MTE crashes, but they don't often do a lot of that; and they get called out for being developer unfriendly when they do enforcement.