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GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all

grapheneos.social

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Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all

#23
post #17
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GrapheneOS themselves said it wasn't worth getting the 11 over the 10 on Twitter. It has a worse GPU and less RAM, and the increase in CPU speed is so negligible that often you end up with better performance using the previous generation. In addition, GrapheneOS isn't even available on 11 series devices yet.

interesting. what about the side loading apps? I assume that's an OS and Graphene would likely allow it?

I’m in the process of switching from an iPhone to Graphene on a pixel 10 Pro.

I can load apps from the web (disabled by default iirc), the local file system, a sandboxed instance of the Play store, Obtainium, f-droid, wherever.

Took some getting used to, but it’s nice feeling like I actually control and can choose how my phone works.

Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all

#24
It’s absurd that a small project like Graphene is able to run rings around a giant like Google in the security sphere. Almost makes you wonder if some of those vulnerabilities are intentionally allowed to exist.

Vulnerabilities in the world’s most popular (by volume) mobile OS could provide a plausibly deniable global espionage backdoor.

Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all

#25

Phones typically have 2 operating systems: one to handle telephonic functions like managing tower connections and separate operating system for user applications. The security implication here is that the telephonic operating system has access to the same system resources as the application operating system at the same time, right? The problem is your data is always available in plaintext to the telephonic OS because…

> Phones typically have 2 operating systems

A separate OS runs the security chip (like Titan). Another could be running in EL3 (Trusted Execution Environment), yet many could be running in Realms (mutually untrusted VMs). The later stage bootloaders and some firmware (ex: GPUs) themselves could be considered OSes in their own right.

Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all

#27
I am almost certainly going to live with whatever drawbacks in terms of camera quality, battery life, etc. Come with their Motorola phone when it's time to upgrade. MTE is such a non-negotiable for modern digital security on phones it's crazy Google would be so okay with this regression.

What's especially stuck in my mind lately is how insecure basically all desktop OS' feel. In at the point of buying a second and third GPU for my desktop to run my email and browser in dedicated VMs because everything feels as watertight as a sieve. Qubes seems more and more appealing in a world where every open source software supply chain is under seige, corporate software underprioritizes security, and most sites will stop at almost nothing to surveil you.

I truly lament this new reality where MY computers I PURCHASED feel to use like I'm reaching blind into a paper bag filled with razor blades.

Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all

#29

[flagged]

Security shouldn’t be a niche use case. There’s a constant trickle of CVEs, and spyware vendors are known to abuse these exploits in their software. All this on devices that are reachable in the US through a text or MMS, sent to an easily located 10 digit number that isn’t easily changed. These are devices that people now use for all kinds of sensitive tasks!

Security should be the number one priority, frankly. Graphene has shown that this is possible, and they have tried multiple times to get Google to integrate their work.

Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all

#30
My strong instinct is that GrapheneOS's plan could be problematic:

Generally, do not to invest in features that the upstream vendor isn't fully committed to. It might work today, but tomorrow or next year, etc., it might not. They might even deploy other things that are incompatible or do other things that assume the feature is disabled. In fact, plans to do those things might be the reason they disabled MTE.

Also, never support products or projects that won't work well. When someone's Pixel 11 is slow, they will think and post that 'GrapheneOS is slow'. Blaming Google will not be very credible and will look like you're just trying to duck responsibility. Your brand's name goes whatever you release; people will associate their experience with GrapheneOS (also because GOS is the new, unconventional thing; Google is the established norm); if their experience is bad, they will associate it with GOS.

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