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Hang on to Your Firefox

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Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#461

Post by account42 »

glenstein wrote: post #443
aragilar wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Thunderbird now does run on donations (though is looking a relevant additional funding sources, e.g. providing hosted email: https://www.tb.pro/en-US/ ). This is not to say Mozilla can't seek out other sources of money, or develop appropriate ancillary services, but the absence of an option to just give money for Firefox (and Firefox only) is noticeable.

I really want you to stop and think about what you're saying for a second. I just made the point that the strongest online fundraising operation in the world, Wikipedia, gets less than half of what it takes to fund Firefox. Your counterpoint to that is to point to Thunderbird, which raises significantly less money than Wikipedia, which is already not enough to fun Firefox, in order to prove that it's plausible that t…

Wikipedia gets way more than they actually need to run the site, and this is even with tons of self-inflicted drama of their own.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#462

Post by nosioptar »

autoexec wrote: post #275
nosioptar wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's still seamonkey, lynx, and I think emacs has a browser built in somewhere. Konqueror could be an option.

Eventually we'll have ladybird too

Ever screenshot I've seen of ladybird makes me not want to use it. It's too "modern". I need functional software where the text and background aren't the same color.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#463

Post by account42 »

BenFranklin100 wrote: post #192
autoexec wrote: post #53

> Meanwhile, the over thinkers on Hacker News come up with convoluted reasons to hate on Firefox every time the subject arises...Firefox is our last best hope for browser engine diversity and competition. It's exactly because Firefox is so important that you'll see people here complaining when Firefox does things to push away users like Mozilla buying up an ad-tech company, collecting data on users, and using firefox…

This rant reminds me why Linux has limited penetration. Its user base is made up of opinionated users who view compromise along the way to something larger as a moral failure.

If other users are happy with Windows then theirs not the culture I want Linux to ever adopt.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#464

Post by account42 »

senfiaj wrote: post #10
hx8 wrote: post #6

I am under the impression that Firefox is the only web browser which has access to quality ad blocker. Am I incorrect in this? How is this not enough of a selling point for everyone to switch to it?

Yeah, and when you think about the insane complexity of Web standards, and the fact that even Microsoft failed to create a browser with an independent engine, we are very unlikely to see a new browser engine: https://waspdev.com/articles/2025-04-07/will-there-be-a-new-... . This means that not only we are unlikely to see browsers with new engines but also that the existing browser engine diversity might even shrink i…

Microsoft didn't fail, they made a business decisions to reduce costs.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#466

Post by ghthor »

Eji1700 wrote: post #310
autoexec wrote: post #53

> Meanwhile, the over thinkers on Hacker News come up with convoluted reasons to hate on Firefox every time the subject arises...Firefox is our last best hope for browser engine diversity and competition. It's exactly because Firefox is so important that you'll see people here complaining when Firefox does things to push away users like Mozilla buying up an ad-tech company, collecting data on users, and using firefox…

> It's exactly because Firefox is so important that you'll see people here complaining when Firefox does things to push away users like Mozilla buying up an ad-tech company, collecting data on users, and using firefox to push personalized ads, or the addition of anti-features and questionable design choices that force us to hunt for and modify poorly documented settings in about:config and make edits to userChrome.cs…

Tree style tabs, can never go back to a browser without them; Firefox only place with them (via extension).

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#467

Post by PKop »

bigyabai wrote: post #95
PKop wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not their "vision for the web" it's just an attempt at funding development of the browser given they aren't an ad-network behemoth like Google. Like Kagi charging for their search engine, a company charging money directly for the product is a good idea all things considered. How do you expect them to pay their developers?

> How do you expect them to pay their developers? Ethically, for one. I'll be fucked if you expect me to "donate" to a browser that thinks my friends and family deserve a lower-quality browser experience.

They crypto payments for ads mechanism isn't enabled by default. Charging money directly is a way to avoid all of this so should be supported by people seeking "ethical" ways to fund development. What is lower quality about Brave's experience? Their built in ad blocker is great, certainly not low quality.

Google pays Mozilla something like $400 million a year. So what browser do you use that you claim is ethical, and what exactly is the ethical method to fund development which you haven't actually defined? Origin, like Kagi, seems the best way to do it imo.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#468

Post by bluGill »

autoexec wrote: post #211
wlesieutre wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other people do fork Firefox though, like Zen browser https://zen-browser.app/ https://github.com/zen-browser/desktop

A lot of existing forks are just Firefox with a couple features added or removed. It's very different from a fork that continues being independently developed as a separate project.

All the existing "forks" that continue past adding/removing that one feature are regularly merging firefox back. That is they are not a fork there are a derivative that never forked. All the forks that remain a fork that I've seen die within a few months.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#469

Post by PKop »

bigyabai wrote: post #360
cute_boi wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintaining browser takes a lot of effort. And, fighting with google implementation takes it to whole new level. $60 is very reasonable amount as it is a lifetime license.

I don't trust Brave to fight the good fight against Google. Brave wants to sell their own ads and push Web3 slop, making them an ethical tarpit with questionable motivations.

Web3 was used simply as a way to get money for development that gave some control to users about which ads they would see and isn't enabled by default. Origin avoids all of this and charges the user directly for the product, like Kagi seems like great motivation in my mind what issues do you have with it?

Who do you trust to fight the good fight against Google? Mozilla, who get $400 million per year from Google? Makes no sense. Brave has a great built in ad blocker that is configurable with lists and works great. What's the problem?

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#470

Post by nosioptar »

GuB-42 wrote: post #160
autoexec wrote: post #53

> Meanwhile, the over thinkers on Hacker News come up with convoluted reasons to hate on Firefox every time the subject arises...Firefox is our last best hope for browser engine diversity and competition. It's exactly because Firefox is so important that you'll see people here complaining when Firefox does things to push away users like Mozilla buying up an ad-tech company, collecting data on users, and using firefox…

I will go further and say that people hate on Firefox because they care. We don't see many people here hating on Edge for instance, they may hate the fact that it always wants to force itself in, but not the browser itself. And that's simply because they don't use it, they don't even bother trying, they don't know what to hate about it and they don't care. Occasionally, some people say it is actually good, they get i…

This reflects my whining.

Obviously, I hate edge. I dont mention it because useless garbage is what I expect out of microsoft.

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