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Dwarf Fortress is getting the mother of all magic updates

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Re: Dwarf Fortress is getting the mother of all magic updates

#211

Post by oortoo »

Mobius01 wrote: post #3

I wish nothing but success to Tarn and Zach, it’s great that releasing on Steam and adding a friendlier UI helped the game reach new audiences. It’s the proverbial time black hole.

Dwarf Fortress's Steam UI is by far, my least favorite thing about the game. Does anyone else agree?

After playing with the Lazy Newb's Pack and other similar tools for years, I found the Steam version to be a maaaaasive downgrade. The mouse was tied to the framerate, everything felt sluggish and hard to control.

It really irks me because I had been telling everyone for years to play this game, and finally it gets an "official" release and I found it to be... the worst version of the game I'd tried yet.

Maybe its improved since I last tried it. But it would be hard to outdo what the fans had done with the UI, IMO. Even features like seasonal color schemes felt almost vital to me. Not to mention customizing your own preferred sprites...

I almost wish Tarn and Zach had kept to building core gameplay and let the fans handle the UI, with some sort of official team-up to bring it to Steam.

I'd recommended Lazy Newb Pack to almost anyone but I don't think I'd recommend the Steam version, at least the version I tried.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is getting the mother of all magic updates

#212

Post by oortoo »

nonethewiser wrote: post #207
frollogaston wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weirdly the ASCII art was what drew me in the most. Once accustomed to it, feels like The Matrix where they're reading the world.

Love DF, havent played the steam version. The menus and lack of native ui controls for some things (dfhack) were by far the biggest problem, not the ascii. I get that the ascii is noisy and a matter of taste - not disputing that - but there were much bigger UX problems.

Steam version is much worse than the fan UI options that were already available, sadly. Its also why I explain why DF really failed to take off after the Steam release. It's nowhere near the best, or even best looking, way to play the game.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is getting the mother of all magic updates

#213

Post by db48x »

satvikpendem wrote: post #208
db48x wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that’s not a game’s job. You will not enjoy every game. Those games that you did not enjoy are not necessarily failures. They are simply games that _you_ did not enjoy.

Sure, that's not what I'm saying though. It's the job of the game to be fun in general, not in specific to some individual, and one of those ways is to have a good onboarding experience. People saying DF is fun are having fun despite its terrible onboarding, not because of it; in other words, cope.

No, no. If you cannot figure out a game then it won’t be fun, and you won’t enjoy it. But other people _will_ figure it out, and will enjoy it. And many of them will enjoy it more _because_ it was challenging to figure out and to do well at. It’s ok to write an approachable game, but not all games must be approachable.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is getting the mother of all magic updates

#214

Post by oortoo »

flurb wrote: post #38

I'm still pissed about the fact that they essentially gave the finger to everyone who has been long-term supporters - when they added the G to their UI, they essentially scrapped the old. In favor of a mouse-driven design, they dropped the old, keyboard-driven UI. Long-term supporters, in this case, means people paying, and not insubstantial amounts either - before they partnered with Kitfox, they used to publish how…

Steam release was absolutely botched.

I didn't want to say it at around the time it came out, because I wanted it to succeed... but they dropped the ball in a big, big way.

Lazy Newb Pack and other fan mods are still the best way to play.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is getting the mother of all magic updates

#215

Post by oortoo »

AngryData wrote: post #127
flurb wrote: post #38

I'm still pissed about the fact that they essentially gave the finger to everyone who has been long-term supporters - when they added the G to their UI, they essentially scrapped the old. In favor of a mouse-driven design, they dropped the old, keyboard-driven UI. Long-term supporters, in this case, means people paying, and not insubstantial amounts either - before they partnered with Kitfox, they used to publish how…

Is it really that bad? I haven't played since the GUI update but was thinking about getting into it again because I still have years of muscle memory from it. But if I am forced to use the mouse im not sure I even want to bother. There is absolutely no way I could play the game at the same speed I use to if I have to resort to mouse-only features.

IMO, the steam release is not very good. Especially if you had been used to using the top mods that existed before the steam release for ease of control.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is getting the mother of all magic updates

#217

Post by oortoo »

DarmokTanagra wrote: post #75
philipov wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you name a few of the best ones?

Noita is the first that comes to mind. Some others that I have in my library are magicraft, fictorum, and spell chain. I'm messing around with these ideas myself, reminds me of the old days of crafting broken spells in morrowind.

Noita isn't really on the level that DF describes. Noita randomizes wands and allows you to make custom spells by leveraging different qualities, but its not procedurally generating the rules of magic themselves. The rules are locked in from the start.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is getting the mother of all magic updates

#219

Post by azath92 »

buredoranna wrote: post #210

One of the greatest stories of all time, is the story of "Boatmurdered". A long read, but makes me laugh every time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boatmurdered https://lparchive.org/Dwarf-Fortress-Boatmurdered/Introducti...

Some of the effort that folks have put into recording their dwarf fortress experiences, and captureing that special something that emerges out of the game is wonderful.

I humbly also submit the illustrated stories of Bronzemurder and Oilfurnace https://www.olddog.games/Oilfurnace https://www.olddog.games/Bronzemurder

and the story of Glasedcoast https://glazedcoast.neocities.org/

Love to hear of more. Even if im not actively playing, i always love a read.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is getting the mother of all magic updates

#220

Post by tripleee »

oortoo wrote: post #211
Mobius01 wrote: post #3

I wish nothing but success to Tarn and Zach, it’s great that releasing on Steam and adding a friendlier UI helped the game reach new audiences. It’s the proverbial time black hole.

Dwarf Fortress's Steam UI is by far, my least favorite thing about the game. Does anyone else agree? After playing with the Lazy Newb's Pack and other similar tools for years, I found the Steam version to be a maaaaasive downgrade. The mouse was tied to the framerate, everything felt sluggish and hard to control. It really irks me because I had been telling everyone for years to play this game, and finally it gets an…

I don't mind the UI so much but my biggest issue is they got rid of the keyboard controls.

I really wish they'd put some actual effort into the graphics of the game. Even some minimal animations would be nice.

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