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Reverse engineering my ADHD test

nullpt.rs

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Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#171

Post by johnwalkr »

NortySpock wrote: post #89
johnwalkr wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to add that the comment is also funny to me because it and the blog post are very relatable to me. I don't mean to dismiss it at all. It's really important to get a good diagnosis for anything like this and not dismiss it or lock into the wrong diagnosis because of your own tunnel vision. You wrote "the test is quick, easy, and painless" but I also want to note that it's not always. Depending on your country,…

" diagnosis during childhood so if you're 30 or 40 you might have no chance " Huh? You don't have to be tested as-a-child, you don't have to call up your fourth grade teacher. You can self report your subjective experience. "Did you have these problems as a child? Have you always had trouble doing your homework? Did stressing out about homework enable you to do the homework?" They ask the question a few different way…

As I said getting a diagnosis varies by region and doctor. A lot. It's practically impossible in some countries. And also depending on region or personal circumstances, it may not be easy to find another doctor or psychiatrist. Also note that in many countries, only a psychiatrist can diagnose it. Even if diagnosed, you might live in a region where most medicine for ADHD is illegal or have a doctor that won't prescribe them. If you just get disbelief after 6 months of waiting, and after another 6 months just get told stimulants are bad, you might give up.

If you search (eg reddit) for ADHD adult diagnosis, it is filled with horror stories. There's even lots of posts of people diagnosed and medicated for 20+ years that move to another country and can't get a prescription. Or you get a prescription, but the pharmacy won't dispense it or insurance won't pay for it. A typical post on these topics also has one or more people responding "I'm in the same place and it was easy" but also has one or more people responding "I'm in the same place and I tried for 3 years before giving up". By the way, it's also common for women to have more trouble getting a diagnosis compared to male siblings and friends with the same symptoms.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#172

Post by enragedcacti »

dchristian wrote: post #164
hungryhobbit wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is a joke, but I'd be careful about assuming: I had a trained therapist diagnose me with ADHD ... incorrectly . It turns out, there are other conditions out there that can appear to be be ADHD. If a trained therapist can confuse them, outside observers certainly can too, so it is possible that "very ADHD-acting" person you know might not have it. (Or, especially for females, the reverse can be true, as no…

It was originally called ADD. Then they forced the H in there for hyperactivity. And now they say there is non-hyperactive ADHD, but... they don't call it ADD. So the first rule of getting attention for your paper is to re-define common terms...

The origin of ADD as a diagnosis is the DSM-III (1980), which calls it "attention-deficit disorder with or without hyperactivity". Do better.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#173

Post by LocalPCGuy »

thin_carapace wrote: post #48
nullpt_rs wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with original commenter but +1 to reframing the language. I was very afraid to begin medication because I would always hear about how addicting this medication can be. But like you say, you wouldn't tell someone with diabetes that they're addicted to insulin.

it's not good to flame people for things they can't control. I also think it's not fair to compare insulin (life saving non synthesizable hormone) vs amphetamine (hard drug that helps people better cope with a society expressly designed to beat them down), because then we forget that dosing amphetamines daily comes with its own price of damage to the body. drugs prescribed for adhd are also very much addicting - if o…

To your point about life saving - untreated ADHD folks have a 2-3x mortality rate, generally due to accidental cause or risky behaviors. Studies have shown that medication can have a significant statistical decrease in the overall mortality rate. So while it's not a cut/dry as insulin, it is still "life saving" for many.

The reasons you cite are why it is a controlled substance, and why it should be taken under supervision of a doctor. But they aren't arguments against the drug itself or that it is in a different "category" of drug. It is a treatment, and like any treatment, the pros/cons should be discussed with medical professionals and appropriate decisions made for each individual.

And yes, sadly our society fails people who are different and our medical system fails people with regards to their medication all the time - that can happen with any medication though. And yes, consequences vary greatly depending on the medication.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#174

Post by LocalPCGuy »

drakythe wrote: post #24
LocalPCGuy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that ADHD is a serious condition for many people, and that it's overly romanticized and that isn't good when it comes to getting help for those that do need it. To that point, I'm going push back on this language just a bit: > you end up addicted and pretty much permanently require drugs to function well That is negatively framing medication, which if taken properly as prescribed is no different than any othe…

I think it is also worth reframing what "functioning well" means. Society expects certain things of us and our brains function in a way that those things are more difficult. Is that our fault, or society, or some mix? Isn't it possible that society itself could adjust in such a way that people who naturally struggle to sit in a cubicle doing the same thing all day every day could be offered other options? Seems like…

I agree and it would be great if we could do that and ideally there would be roles for people that are not able to maintain the strict structure and their contributions were valued even if different.

That said, I think we agree that accepting the treatment folks need to function in society as it exists is a step in the right direction.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#175

Post by LocalPCGuy »

schlauerfox wrote: post #14
LocalPCGuy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that ADHD is a serious condition for many people, and that it's overly romanticized and that isn't good when it comes to getting help for those that do need it. To that point, I'm going push back on this language just a bit: > you end up addicted and pretty much permanently require drugs to function well That is negatively framing medication, which if taken properly as prescribed is no different than any othe…

This Doctor's videos reframed the clinical work and actual research for me, very informative and helpful to me personally. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0tLWu7ljYVFPiZQfHjTMsA

Dr. Barkley does a great job presenting research and factual information in a way that is easy to understand and I've also found it very helpful personally. Was diagnosed in adulthood, so resources like this were great finds during my hyperfocus dive into gaining some measure of understanding of ADHD.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#176

Post by hirvi74 »

wao0uuno wrote: post #162
Quarrel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are they? Are there papers on this?

A psychiatrist told me that people with ADHD perform better under extreme pressure and chaos. No idea if that's true. Personally I don't even think of ADHD as a deficiency. It's just a trait that is not compatible with modern society and workplace.

There might be a correlation, but I doubt causation. I would argue people with ADHD, like myself, tend to end up in situations where extreme pressure and chaos is more common. Thus, we have more exposure than the average person. I imagine it can be a trainable trait in many people.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#177

Post by yuck39 »

I took a similar test but in person at an office a few years ago. Exact same layout, of "click when x appears, do nothing if not". It was only 25 minutes I believe but felt like an eternity. I had a 100% success rate and above average reaction speed, but I still "failed" because of my observed behavior as I was taking the test.

The proctor noted my restless legs, frequent posture shifts, and "tendancy to tap the table when not responding to the stimuli" (this was a strategy I had come up with to create something to do in response to "doing nothing", as it made a sort of rhythm that gave me something to do). I then realized that the test meant very little, but the proctor was watching and diagnosing me durng the test.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#178

Post by ipsod »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #95
genxy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD also evolutionary advantages, so there is unlikely to be a single gene that encodes for it.

1. How is it advantageous? 2. Assuming it really is: Why would this make it unlikely to be encoded on a single gene? As a layman, the only condition I'm aware of with this "downside but also upside" quality is sickle cell anaemia (downside is anaemia, upside is increased resistance to malaria), which is decided by a single nucleotide change on chromosome 11.

Sometimes the upside is just being different. I heard about a group of cattle, and one of them was ill, while the others feasted. The feed was tainted, and so only the sick one survived.

Though, with ADHD, I think it's definitely more than that. It doesn't just make it hard to focus, it makes it hard to focus on what you need to, until the moment that it is obviously now or never. Focus, though - there's tons of that, flitting about, and sometimes grabbing you up and running away with you - sometimes for months. I would imagine that there are a lot of novel discoveries attributable to it.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#179

Post by hirvi74 »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #140
akoboldfrying wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. How is it advantageous? 2. Assuming it really is: Why would this make it unlikely to be encoded on a single gene? As a layman, the only condition I'm aware of with this "downside but also upside" quality is sickle cell anaemia (downside is anaemia, upside is increased resistance to malaria), which is decided by a single nucleotide change on chromosome 11.

By seeking out novelty, someone could be a more effective forager or better able to spot predators/prey hiding. ADHD often comes with a high attention to detail, so there's lots of advantages that could come with that (e.g. that twig wasn't broken before, something has passed through here). Also, having different sleeping patterns can mean that the people with ADHD are likely better equipped to keep a fire burning ov…

> ADHD often comes with a high attention to detail

Per the DSM-5, one of the core symptoms of ADHD:

"often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#180

Post by LocalPCGuy »

sedivy94 wrote: post #102
usernametaken29 wrote: post #33

I spent a decent amount working on ADHD diagnostics and unfortunately it sucks. To my knowledge, to this day, there isn’t a single reliable biomarker that identifies autism spectrum disorders. It’s usually correlation studies paired with questionnaires which for lack of better words can be described as “incidental” at best. Most z scored tests I know are also developed with small samples, a hundred participants with…

32 y/o male. I took an in-person assessment earlier this year. It was an 8 hour battery of tests split across two days. In no particular order: - Clinical Interview - Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale – Fourth Edition (WAIS-IV) - Wechsler Memory Scale – Fourth Edition (WMS-IV) - Conners Continuous Performance Test – Third Edition (CPT-3) - Delis-Kaplan Executive Functioning System, selected subtests - Wisconsin Card…

Be careful and approach `HealthyGamerGG` with a bit of healthy skepticism. I have benefited from a number of his videos, but recently small things have lead to me growing concerned that as his reach/influence grows, the same motivations that existed early on mutate as with many influencers. Not suggesting anything negative per se, just recommending a variety of sources and validating his claims. For another source, Dr. Barkley's videos are very good.
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