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Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

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131–140 of 243 posts

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#131

Whats really sad for aviation is there was already an extensive network of ground based navaids. As GPS has proliferated, they've slowly been decommissioned as they age out to save on cost. I'm specifically referring to VORs which provide azimuth and range to station. GPS is fantastic and as a primary source everyone loves the benefits it brings. However, in a century of aviation, everyone has kinda sorted out that y…

What about terrain following? I would guess decent topographical maps of the world aren't that hard to come by today, to get a good idea of where you are. Although that approach depends on you being able to see the ground neither of which is guaranteed over a body of water or in poor visibility.

My guess would be that the best solution is multi sensorial anyways. So you have GPS, but then you would have an Inertial Measurement Unit, based purely on acceleration and inertia, radar and barometric systems and maybe optical systems for terrain identification and celestial navigation.

I have recently heard an episode of Amp Hour podcast¹ where they talked about using Bluetooth from satellites as a GPS replacement for asset tags. So maybe alternatives to GPS on different bands are on the verge.

Another interesting idea would be to have an antenna array on the plane that captures different radio sources and the angles from which they seem to come from and create a always updating radio activity map that maps a certain "radio landscape" to a position on the planet. AFAIK this is currently being worked on as well under the name "radio-SLAM" (with SLAM standing for Simultaneous Localization and Mapping). This means, jammers could maybe even be used as potential beacons themselves.

¹: The episode in question: https://theamphour.com/728-space-age-bluetooth-with-alex-har...

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#132
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sustaining human life Not really. Drone ships are very much a thing these days.

How can a drone ship hold its designated position while it's blocking gps?

accelerometers can do that job. Also it can stop the jamming every once in a while to check.

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two types of GPS jamming. There's GPS jamming by the military, mostly in war zones. This seldom effects airliners because they steer clear of active war zones. Then there's GPS jamming by delivery drivers who don't want their boss watching over their shoulder all the time. When the article mentions jammers as small as a cellphone and costing less than $100, those are sold to drivers. Delivery drivers don't…

Antenna tech has moved way beyond what was possible in the days GPS was invented. Planar arrays and MIMO are ubiquitous and cheap. These antennas have a very good idea of where the signal is coming from, due to delay measurements and can detect and filter ambient noise. They are super hard to jam. The reason why drones have become such a PITA is that these inexpensive antennas are very hard to defeat even with milita…

The tech is already there, but the reason those antenna are not widely used is that they used to fall under ITAR, so no US companies want to touch those for civilian uses. Of course Turkey and China is not US so they don't give a damn about ITAR compliance, and so you can buy those anti jam antennas out of alibaba.

Brad Parkinson, the father of GPS and PNTAB, they've been trying to lobby the US government to remove ITAR from that technology so the civilian can benefit from anti jamming, and finally they managed to do it sometime last year. Now it falls under EAR

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#134
post #96

I wish there were cheap Bluetooth jammers to prevent speakers from playing when hiking

Where do you hike where it’s a problem? I mean if I meet perhaps 10 people max over 2 hours. If all of them were blasting music it still wouldn’t worry me at all.

Japan.

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#135
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like we'd need a modern version that's less susceptible to jamming, otherwise aren't we just replacing one jammable service with another?

There are two types of GPS jamming. There's GPS jamming by the military, mostly in war zones. This seldom effects airliners because they steer clear of active war zones. Then there's GPS jamming by delivery drivers who don't want their boss watching over their shoulder all the time. When the article mentions jammers as small as a cellphone and costing less than $100, those are sold to drivers. Delivery drivers don't…

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Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#136
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sustaining human life Not really. Drone ships are very much a thing these days.

How can a drone ship hold its designated position while it's blocking gps?

Probably just turn off the jammer for 2 seconds

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#137
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I am not mistaken, this type of jammer can severily affect people with pacemakers. But, as a Brazilian citizen, I can understand the feeling of being forced to listen other's people music.

its myth youre mistaken because that would mean all the wifi devices and normal bt devices will also stop pacemaker. only early version of pacemaker before internet would be affected modern pacemakers have protection as long as you keep a safe 6 inch distance

can you cite the source?

I'd imagine temporary (15 minutes?) disruption would be considered in the design of pacemakers or blood glucose monitors, but if you're using this in close proximity for a long period of time... then wouldn't there be problems?

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#138
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sustaining human life Not really. Drone ships are very much a thing these days.

How can a drone ship hold its designated position while it's blocking gps?

Anchor? ;)

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> boss watching over their shoulder all the time Sounds like the root cause to me. It should be illegal to use GNSS to track employees, or anyone really. Jamming is starting to sound a lot like self-defense against surveillance.

IMO tracking is just way too useful. You know when things are about to arrive (so you dont miss a parcel because you went to the toilet or you can even intercept your driver once he's in the area, removing most of the last-mile problem), routes can be changed on the fly (e.g. for on-demand public transport pickup, trunking or delay mitigation) or, well, you can track your vehicles, allowing you to find them quickly i…

Is this even a real scenario though? A data logger is going to notice hours of GPS outage during your working hours.
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