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Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

fortune.com

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Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

#401

Post by crote »

jorvi wrote: post #235
microtonal wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think currently one of the biggest risks for The Netherlands is salinization. If there is not enough river water and the groundwater level is too low, sea water will push upward, contaminating the river beds and increasingly much soil around it. This summer they had to close locks to block seawater and to increase the fresh water level. Of course, this has a considerable economic damage, since it blocks inland ship…

Netherlands is also in a much worse position due to being downstream of literally everyone. It's going to be a huge future fight in the EU because all countries upstream will want to retain 'all' the water and the remaining low flow will still have all those countries their industries dumping toxic waste, meaning the ratio of water-waste will get ridiculous.

I would argue the opposite.

There is still enough water, it is just unevenly distributed over the year. Previously winter snow was retained in the Alps and released as it melted during the summer, nowadays winter rain immediately comes downstream as giant floods.

If upstream countries were able to retain a significant portion of those floods and release it as a trickle during the summer, The Netherlands wouldn't have any problems. It is literally impossible for it to be worse than it currently is.

Besides, most of the water used in The Netherlands does not come from the large rivers, but from local rainfall. The drought is due to sticking to the historical policy of trying to immediately get rid of any excess water, rather than retaining it locally. No need to do anything EU-wide to solve that, just get the farmers to accept that the land will be a bit soggy in the winter.

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

#402

Post by pfdietz »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #137
the__alchemist wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sulfur or similar may be more politically viable due to the tradgedy-of-the-commons. They can be enacted without as much consensus, maybe.

In Neal Stephenson's novel Termination Shock it was enacted with zero consensus. I think that there are private bodies working on it right now, too.

I could see countries drastically affected by heat doing it. If they experience mass death, or even in the case of island countries complete elimination, what threat would make them stop?

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

#403

Post by pfdietz »

boudin wrote: post #104
nakedrobot2 wrote: post #54

Atmospheric injections of Sulphur is going to be the only answer.

Thecnosolusionism to the rescue, let's create new problems...

We could mire ourselves in nirvana paralysis instead, insisting only problem-free solutions be adopted.

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

#405

Post by crote »

MrDresden wrote: post #259
artisinal wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drought in The Netherlands is artificial though. Millionaire farmers are pumping up water to water their crops during the day. Due to the heat most of the spray evaporates before it touches the plants. During the winter they artificially lower the ground water level for personal benefit. Also of this so they can gain even more millions by exporting all the food across the border. Time to block some more highways, des…

Not saying that Dutch farmers don't use a lot of water overall, but they have some of the most effective farming practices on the planet when it comes to water usage.

Correct, but those very same practices are causing huge damages to the local environment and economy, while the farming relies on foreign imports to function and the majority of its production is exported.

Rather than exporting farming products, The Netherlands should focus on exporting farming practices.

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

#406

Post by crote »

fangspire wrote: post #362
Tadpole9181 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with people constantly pointing to the Ozone layer is that it was only really addressed because it cost virtually nothing to do so. All we had to do was switch from one bad thing to another good thing, which was already becoming cheaper. Climate change as a whole requires a fundamental shift from the basis of almost all chemical manufacturing and transport logistics. And doing so will cause cataclysmic ch…

Climate change requires building more nuclear power. Which we absolutely can do.

Nuclear is too slow. Not only are you running fossil plants for decades while you build nuclear reactors, you are also emitting additional CO2 during the construction process!

Renewables reduce CO2 emissions today. Building a solar farm takes months, building a wind farm takes single-digit years. They'll have recouped their construction emissions well before the first nuclear reactor comes online.

It is important to remember that the challenge we are facing is not *how do we build a fully-renewable grid", but "how do we reduce CO2 emissions the fastest". Having a 95% solar-and-wind grid with 5% fossil backup 10 years from now is significantly better than having a 100% nuclear grid 20 years from now!

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

#407

Post by pfdietz »

pseudohadamard wrote: post #350
tsunamifury wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is controversial but I doubt this heat wave is entirely human made. Europe has gone through long arid periods in this past.

We have actually had one similar high-CO2 event in the past, which wasn't human made. It's called the Permian Extinction, and eliminated around 90% of all life on earth.

The reduction in biomass at the boundary was possibly much greater. For example, no coal was formed for 10 million years, and the shell part of marine sediments was reduced by 97%.

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

#408

Post by crote »

pluc wrote: post #191
IshKebab wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with AI really. It's a century of pumping out CO2, not 2 years. Maybe in the future... but you can't blame AI for this year.

I'm totally with you. The proliferation of AI, to me, is a collective choice of convenience over climate. Remember Covid? We can do something, we just won't.

The general population didn't exactly get a choice. AI is forced on us in many apps we were already using, solely because CxOs believe any mention of AI results in Line Goes Up.

The population didn't choose for convenience. The billionaires chose for additional profit.

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

#410

Post by epolanski »

ddorian43 wrote: post #387
epolanski wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I eat very well, mostly a classic mediterranean diet with lots of vegetables, lentils, etc, and I'm very healthy, thanks for the worry.

Yes, but you're just lucky, or still young, or aren't really measuring, or aren't optimizing. Which is fine. But it's not nice to tax other people's medicine.

1. There's no evidence that carnivore diet has any long term benefit, as this 2026 article that reviews all of the available literature points out. In fact there's more evidence of the contrary.

> The Carnivore Diet may offer short-term health benefits but carries substantial risks of nutrient deficiencies, reduced intake of health-promoting phytochemicals, and the development of cardiovascular disease. At this time, long-term adherence to a CD cannot be recommended.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12845189

2. On the contrary, the mediterranean diet is one of the most studied and backed with more evidence behind its long term health benefits.

3. In any case the topic is climate change, which agriculture and cattle are very strongly responsible for as cattle farming produces both lots of greenhouses as well as being very resource intensive.

Which is fine. But don't pretend it to be otherwise with your social media diet.

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