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California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

tomshardware.com

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Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#301

Post by inigyou »

fasterik wrote: post #292
inigyou wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the facebookisation or redditisation of open source. Open source used to mean when you got the software you got the source code, but now it means a platform for arguing. And there's no doubt in my mind when people say they can't switch their project from GitHub to Forgejo because they'd lose "contributions", they mean this.

I don't understand your point. The phrase "when you got the software it got the source code" makes no sense. And arguments were just as common decades ago on forums, mailing lists, and IRC. What exactly are you trying to say?

you went to openssh.org and downloaded openssh. no feedback channel. And long before that, you wrote to request a DECtape in the mail.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#302

Post by inigyou »

jiveturkey wrote: post #295
inigyou wrote: post #260

This is a silly idea since California's law was actually well-thought-out. This will actually force social media to ban Linux clients, since the social media can't be compliant in that case. The operating system won't provide an age signal and the social media isn't allowed to ask for one on its own. I also want a permanent ban for anyone who calls the California law "age verification". It does not verify age. Period…

I think you're misreading it. It doesn't ban Linux from providing age collection and verification. It makes it a choice, rather than mandatory. I would expect that Linux users want access to age-verified apps just as much as other users, so such a signal will be available. Also, you're being overly pedantic on the language used. It transfers liability away from the service, more easily allowing operation in about hal…

Age verification implies that age is verified, which is a complete and total lie

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#303

Post by c22 »

roenxi wrote: post #70
1718627440 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> now its an internally contradictory horrible law because apparently it isn't important enough to consistently enforce Law is not an abstract code, but an incremental sometimes futile approach to shape society. They only want a way to hold big corporations accountable to exploiting children. They don't actually intend the effects on the consumer, so they tried to fix on easily changeable effect: "Don't worsen the pr…

So what makes kid users on linux so special that they don't need nanny state protection? Are the Californian legislators just throwing them to the wolves? Or are the protections being put in place here not actually important? Seriously, what is the message here supposed to be about the kids using linux? And why are they so different from kids using Windows or Mac? Are there other safety features we can exempt kid lin…

The comment you're replying to is saying that it's not actually about protecting kids, but rather controlling large businesses.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#304

Post by DrHungers »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #256

nobody is worried about about the arbitrarian aspects? What if you are interested in developing your own OS (a task that would have been monumental but may become trivial with LLMs in the future)? Why is the proper level the OS? Why not the browser or the hypervisor? Or perhaps manufacturer should remember your age? What if hardware is resold? We would need a hardware cadastre! A global hardware cadastre would unite…

Yeah, they're just digging a hole of bad laws.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#305

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #256

nobody is worried about about the arbitrarian aspects? What if you are interested in developing your own OS (a task that would have been monumental but may become trivial with LLMs in the future)? Why is the proper level the OS? Why not the browser or the hypervisor? Or perhaps manufacturer should remember your age? What if hardware is resold? We would need a hardware cadastre! A global hardware cadastre would unite…

The bill doesn't exempt Linux-based systems by name, if that's what you're thinking. It exempts any operating system that allows users to "copy, redistribute, and modify the software". It's a bit arbitrary in the sense that Microsoft and Apple could dodge the requirement by simply becoming open source, but that's not going to happen so it's not really a problem.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#306

Post by moody__ »

cm2187 wrote: post #17

Excellent. From now on all kids will become linux natives. The decade of the linux desktop is coming!

Just in time for the kernel and its consequences to become completely hostile to anyone not paying for a frontier model. If I was 16 again and evaluating linux only to see everyone using LLMs to reason about the mess they've put themselves in I don't know if I would have even bothered. The promise of "you can just read and learn about it yourself" has been dead for at least 10 years, but LLMs put the nail in the coffin.

Linux has gone from attracting hippies to openly endorsing corporate closed-source products, something something live long enough to become the villain.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#307

Post by techteach00 »

So someone said something I think sarcastically that deserves a fresh comment.

"From now on all kids will become linux natives. The decade of the linux desktop is coming!"

I teach technology K-8. So I have a front row seat to observing how the next generation navigates this new digital wasteland. Due to the aggressive censorship and locked nature of their computing experience at school, think Go Guardian, they have become experts at using Google workspace to make art, comics, communicate with one another in class etc.

My point, the next generation really will become adept at using Linux IF the system is so locked down that it's all that's available. Humans adapt to their environment, no matter how harsh.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#308

Post by anigbrowl »

missinglugnut wrote: post #13
anigbrowl wrote: post #3

Weird how the people who habitually complain about government are conspicuously silent when it delivers something they wanted.

What do you want people to say? "Yay, the terrible law that threatened to make free computing illegal has an exemption for Linux. Now we only have to deal with unwanted mandatory age verification on all our non-linux devices. I'm so happy."

Yes, learn to take a win when you get one. This is a very basic skill in politics.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#309

Post by antonvs »

cwillu wrote: post #27
antonvs wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It delivered an arbitrary exception to a stupid law. If all someone wanted was an exception for Linux, they don’t understand the problem with this law.

“California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law — software distributed under the GPL, MIT, BSD, and Apache licenses are exempt”

Are you really missing the point that badly?

If you allow this pandering to satisfy you, you’re essentially supporting an age verification requirement for all other computing systems. So you didn’t think the requirement itself was a problem, you just wanted to make sure it didn’t affect you?

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#310

Post by anigbrowl »

Pavilion2095 wrote: post #16
anigbrowl wrote: post #3

Weird how the people who habitually complain about government are conspicuously silent when it delivers something they wanted.

The age verification requirement wasn't dropped, what are you talking about? Linux getting an exemption isn't a win.

It is absolutely a win. If you can't see it as a win because you didn't get everything you wanted at once, then you're setting yourself up for a lifetime of disappointment. Big wins in politics (and most other things) are made out of a succession of smaller wins. Getting unanimous passage of something in a messy legislature is actually quite rare.
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