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Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

theregister.com

151–160 of 292 posts

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#151
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> As for 16 years old voting, I'd argue the age to vote should be raised to 21. Why? Brexit will impact 16 year olds for decades. A large number of the old farts who voted for it are dead now and won't have to suffer the consequences. If you're going to adjust voting ages but don't want to lower it, it makes sense that those over 75 don't get a say in something like Brexit. And if your thought is that 16 year olds d…

60 year old people are better informed compared to 20-30 year olds and more involved and vote more often. Your ageism lacks logic.

As a middle-aged person, I can't agree with that. Declining social interaction as one settles into a narrower world of job and family, and less free time for activism and engagement, means that my peers and myself have less clue than we used to about how to vote; the general feeling about politics when it comes up at get-togethers with friends, is aporia.

Also, part of getting older and wiser, and becoming more aware of history, is knowing the damage that old people like us have done at times. It was people our age who caused the failure of May '68, for example.

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#152

I am not convinced they do, they keep voting to give away their privacy every year.

That’s the weakness of most modern “democracies”: people vote once every few years for one or other party who then do largely whatever they want, outside of some immutable manifesto commitments (which are often flexible anyway).

So no, people don’t vote for such things - they vote for parties who turn out to do such things at some point.

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#153
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US we have tech companies complying with sketchy DHS subpoenas that don’t require warrants. We have DoJ targeting political enemies. We have FISA mass surveillance. You also have a president who has just said he will "report" a journalist to the FCC for "rebuke or punishment". I regret to inform people that fear over people cracking your encryption is quite niche, at this point; you have a looming fascist re…

> $5 wrench Ref for anyone looking: https://xkcd.com/538/

$5 wrench already in play, US citizen was detained at the border recently for simply wiping their phone

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#154
post #133

I am not convinced they do, they keep voting to give away their privacy every year.

As a Brit I've never been asked to vote on that. If you are talking about the general election it's not a main issue compared to other things on the ballot.

For whom have you voted? We have almost no referenda sure, but sometimes there are strong hints in the manifestos, or things to learn from past behaviour of each party

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#155

In the US we have tech companies complying with sketchy DHS subpoenas that don’t require warrants. We have DoJ targeting political enemies. We have FISA mass surveillance. It’s naive to think politically motivated surveillance can’t happen in the UK and elsewhere. Or to assume that only the “right people” will be the ones able to break encryption.

In the US we also have tech companies going out of their way to make their devices have strong encryption and be unbreakable.

Wired has reported that ongoing DHS surveillance tracks “anti-tech” and anti-AI sentiment. So the tech firms have concerns on both sides.

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#156
post #24

Generally speaking the more important an issue is, the less it is allowed to be affected by democratic processes. That's why Brexit was such a big upset, it bucked the trend (the management miscalculated, nobody expected the result and would not have put it to referendum otherwise).

It was virtually 50/50 and should not have proceeded. The bar to leave was set too low. 2/3rd better, and larger turnout should have been mandated. 16 year olds should have voted. The campaign to stay too weak. Mass confusion. Some particularly pernicious lies on the leave side too convincing. Brexit wasn't 100% going to happen, it was more like... Leave 17,410,742 51.89% Remain 16,141,241 48.11%

> The campaign to stay too weak.

That's not an argument, that is not liking the result.

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#157
post #74
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was virtually 50/50 and should not have proceeded. The bar to leave was set too low. 2/3rd better, and larger turnout should have been mandated. 16 year olds should have voted. The campaign to stay too weak. Mass confusion. Some particularly pernicious lies on the leave side too convincing. Brexit wasn't 100% going to happen, it was more like... Leave 17,410,742 51.89% Remain 16,141,241 48.11%

The failing was the one and done nature of it all. The vote should have been, should we entertain this idea? If yes, a second referendum on what Leave actually means when it comes to the final decision point. Y'know the same way that any remotely functioning democracy would approach something this large and nebulous. Iceland being just the most recent example. Instead the vote was "life carries on as is" vs "somethin…

The real power lies in the people deciding what to vote on, not the vote itself. That's why you elect these people too.

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they don't. Turnout in the UK has dropped significantly because it doesn't matter who you vote for, the outcome is the same.

Yes, completely giving up is definitely the better option. /s

Exactly! It's not like we have decades of evidence that the demographic which has consistent high turnout is consistently and significantly politically pandered to in many, many regards. No sir

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#159
post #40
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was virtually 50/50 and should not have proceeded. The bar to leave was set too low. 2/3rd better, and larger turnout should have been mandated. 16 year olds should have voted. The campaign to stay too weak. Mass confusion. Some particularly pernicious lies on the leave side too convincing. Brexit wasn't 100% going to happen, it was more like... Leave 17,410,742 51.89% Remain 16,141,241 48.11%

You could flip that argument. The bar set to remain was too low. As for 16 years old voting, I'd argue the age to vote should be raised to 21. > Some particularly pernicious lies on the leave side too convincing Both sides lied, both sides exaggerated. The referendum to simply leave or remain would never have happened if UK Parliament went to the public more often with referendums about various treaties such as Maast…

You can flip any argument, but there isn't real symmetry here.

If a change would be large and far-reaching and painful to undo, then it should be more difficult to make. Not impossible, of course: sometimes you need to make large far-reaching hard-to-undo changes. But imagine the following situation: about half the population likes X and about half hates it, and every year we hold a referendum on whether to have X or not. Then about once every two years you flip between X and not-X and all the upheaval costs you more than the gain from whichever is the better choice would get you.

So before making a big upheaval-inducing change on the grounds that The People want it, you should have good evidence that The People really do, which means one referendum with a result much more decisive than 51:49, or maybe a series of 51:49 referenda all going the same way.

If I were setting up something like this and could choose the rules, they would be something like: we run a referendum every couple of years until we get a decisive result; a side that won the last N referenda needs a 20%/(N+1) margin to get its way. So, first time round you need to be 60-40 ahead to settle the question; if you won the first time then you only need 55-45 the second time; if you win again but still more narrowly than that then you only need about 53-47 next time; etc. If one position really does consistently have majority support it'll win eventually even if its advantage is narrow. If public opinion is very changeable then too bad, a decision will have to wait until The People have a strong enough opinion to measure with confidence.

(Obviously nothing like that will ever happen. Too geeky and complicated.)

Of course, that wasn't the only major problem with the Brexit referendum. The other catastrophic problem was that it was a choice between "stay in the EU", a well defined outcome with known good and bad points, and "leave the EU somehow", something that could mean dozens of different things. It should have been between "stay in" and "attempt to negotiate terms for leaving, and then hold another referendum on whether to go ahead". Or between "stay in" and "leave on such-and-such terms if we can get them, and otherwise ask again". Or the government should have held extensive negotiations first on what terms it could leave on, and then held a referendum on whether to leave on those terms. Or the referendum could have offered options "stay regardless of terms", "leave regardless of terms", and "leave if such-and-such terms can be achieved". Those possibilities are all pretty unsatisfactory, but they're all better than choosing between the status quo and An Undertaking Of Great Advantage But Nobody To Know What It Is.

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the point of democracy, whoever was interested in the isue, went out to vote, kids are too young to vote, and more than half of people interested enough to go out, voted to leave. You personally might have wanted to remain and wanted to raise the bar, but that's undemocratic, you can't just change the rules when you don't get the outcome you wanted. I'm not from Britain, honestly I don't care what you guys…

>kids are too young to vote I said 16 yo should've had a Brexit vote/say because, especially in this case, it's the kids that reap the choices made. More Generally 16 year olds are old enough to take part in democracy vote-wise, and maybe in all votes too. The point being - look at the short term, actually make that 'not long term', policies being made now by us olds, they don't favor young people, on the whole - or…

I mean, so do the 14 years olds and 10 year olds, and newborns, and the ideas still separated, because future mommy and daddy didn't have sex yet.

But as a society, we've decided that 16 year olds are too young to do many proper things, be it buy alcohol in most countries, drive a car in many, open a bank account, or legally jerk off to porn. They don't watch the news, they have no recollection of previous governments and the promises that were made, never kept and are being made again, they have basically zero sense of taxes and also mostly don't pay any and have little experience with anything related to politics. Neither do most 18 year olds, but if we let them buy booze and drive, we also let them vote.

Usually the push for younger voters comes, when someone prefers a push to a generally more "left" side of spectrum, but even this is turning around, since in my country (slovenia) more and more younger voters are turning right (eg. in the last election), especially young men, since they feel left out by the "left" parties.

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