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The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

stephendiehl.com

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Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#251

Post by christianqchung »

akudha wrote: post #134
Biologist123 wrote: post #24

> People increasingly behave like addicts because addiction is the business model. I sense my internet addiction got a lot worse in recent years. I don’t use social media, but I consume news, blogs and newsletters - and comment threads - voraciously. I think the addiction began as soon as I started to work at a desk behind a computer which had internet access - 20+ years ago. Like putting an alcoholic to work behind…

The most dangerous part of this addiction is that it doesn't feel like addiction. Suppose we spend 4 hours in an afternoon consuming random content - starting somewhere on a Google search, landing on Wikipedia, end up reading dozens of articles on various topics in that 4 hours. Unlike alcohol or drugs, this is knowledge addiction - afterall, we learned about a bunch of things in those 4 hours, didn't we? We didn't s…

Piggybacking onto your post to sort of expand this. I feel like there are a few views of what those 4 hours can encompass on the internet. My view is that reels/shorts Now I don't think that most knowledge is really that useful in general, maybe 1% of 4 hour binges have any real consequences. But occasionally it really does turn out to be very useful. I spent maybe 4-5 hours reading and watching videos about window air conditioners, having known basically nothing but the terrible shaky units from my childhood. After that period of research time, I bought two new replacements, saved $80 with National Grid rebates, and reduced my summer monthly kwh consumption by 200-250. It also led me to information about heat pump systems which I will consider in a future house purchase, and additionally more information which led me to avoid purchasing cheap peltier dehumidifiers for one with a compressor.

I guess my point is, it can definitely be worse. You can at least point to an Ortega hypothesis-like effect of learning a bunch of random stuff. But I agree that even just going on a walk and doing literally nothing feels way, way better than spending that time online. The balance is so heavily tilted towards internet addiction that I expect that having multiple "real" offline hobbies will increasingly be seen as green flags. In my experience, "bookworm" has not been a pejorative in a long time. stackbutterflow's comment about balance seems like the most sensible way to approach timespend in this sense, though. /rant

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#252

Post by Loquebantur »

asdfman123 wrote: post #131
Biologist123 wrote: post #24

> People increasingly behave like addicts because addiction is the business model. I sense my internet addiction got a lot worse in recent years. I don’t use social media, but I consume news, blogs and newsletters - and comment threads - voraciously. I think the addiction began as soon as I started to work at a desk behind a computer which had internet access - 20+ years ago. Like putting an alcoholic to work behind…

If you're interested in what helped me overcome the worst aspects of my internet addiction, I learned to reframe it. I wasn't overcome with addiction, but I was CHOOSING to take a break. There are good reasons to read the news, there are good reasons to take breaks. End the war against yourself and take more wholesome breaks, so your subconscious doesn't take over and force them. It may involve forcing yourself to be…

Not bad, but leaves out crucial steps? "I chose to do this" puts the blame at your own feet without telling you how to deal with it constructively. That can lead to learned helplessness.

Contemplation has the goal of a reassessment of evaluation. The choice needs to be re-evaluated as inferior to better alternatives.

Those need to be explicitly identified. In order to do this, you need to know what led to your choice emotionally.

The other side of the coin is the intentional design of many internet sites to exploit human psychology. News for example are "infotainment", "fear-porn" and "rage-bait", etc. by design and override many "self-discipline" mechanisms.

The internet isolates people while feeding them a simulacra of social interaction without actual social functionality. Objective truth in particular isn't reliably established by "watching the news", that's merely top-down conditioning by whoever owns your "news". Finding objective truth is an active process, not a passive event.

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#253

Post by ssl-3 »

TFNA wrote: post #247
ssl-3 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use the Internet about how I used to 30 years ago. I chat with friends. Sometimes, I make a new friend or lose track of one. On rare occasion we get together to do whatever it is that we have a common interest in. That used to be IRC. I learn new shit by interacting with people I don't know at all. Sometimes, that means hanging out in much more anonymous places (like HN) and sharing ideas. That used to be Usenet. I…

How do you make new IRL friends now in 2026? Where are you hanging out online where there is a culture of people not only revealing their location and age (which platforms and individual internet users have become more guarded about), but even meeting up with other users?

How I do it:

My local IRL friends are some folks I met during my days as a BBS sysop ~35 years ago.

My far away IRL friends are folks online where we felt motivated to treat eachother as friends instead of dangerous randos.

(Risky? Perhaps. We're all simply too old to give a shit.)

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#254

Post by TFNA »

ssl-3 wrote: post #253
TFNA wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you make new IRL friends now in 2026? Where are you hanging out online where there is a culture of people not only revealing their location and age (which platforms and individual internet users have become more guarded about), but even meeting up with other users?

How I do it: My local IRL friends are some folks I met during my days as a BBS sysop ~35 years ago. My far away IRL friends are folks online where we felt motivated to treat eachother as friends instead of dangerous randos. (Risky? Perhaps. We're all simply too old to give a shit.)

That's still not answering my question. Where do you make those "far away IRL friends"? Most commercial platforms today discourage (because it is bad for engagement) users from building close ties with individual other users even if said users are willing to let their guard down. The user base of open and easily findable non-commercial platforms has collapsed. Your posts are dangling some kind of 2026 Shangri-La before HN readers, and you can understand my skepticism.

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#255

Post by asdfman123 »

Loquebantur wrote: post #252
asdfman123 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're interested in what helped me overcome the worst aspects of my internet addiction, I learned to reframe it. I wasn't overcome with addiction, but I was CHOOSING to take a break. There are good reasons to read the news, there are good reasons to take breaks. End the war against yourself and take more wholesome breaks, so your subconscious doesn't take over and force them. It may involve forcing yourself to be…

Not bad, but leaves out crucial steps? "I chose to do this" puts the blame at your own feet without telling you how to deal with it constructively. That can lead to learned helplessness. Contemplation has the goal of a reassessment of evaluation. The choice needs to be re-evaluated as inferior to better alternatives. Those need to be explicitly identified. In order to do this, you need to know what led to your choice…

Focusing on how other people designed it might be good to generate momentum for political activism purposes but it's not good for your own personal self improvement. And if you're getting mad about the world and not doing a significant amount of real world activism, you're getting the worst of both worlds, not helping yourself or anyone else.

I think the best attitude is "Yes, the world could be improved, but all I can do right now is improve myself." There's a raft of evidence (and not just my firsthand anecdotal experience) that shows taking ownership yields far better life outcomes.

The risk for learned helplessness is far greater if you don't even acknowledge the control you have over it. True, someone reading my comment might not go "all the way" in fixing their problems and get stuck blaming themselves, but there's only so much I can do with an internet comment. I recommend therapy too to save you from those sorts of blind alleys.

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#256

Post by rescbr »

asdfman123 wrote: post #178
sefrost wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody isn't like that. "The algorithm" might have made you think everybody is like that though.

Meet a lot of Gen Zers. Far too many of them are.

Huh, maybe that’s why I’m more empathetic towards them compared to my fellow millennials?

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#257

Post by ssl-3 »

TFNA wrote: post #254
ssl-3 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How I do it: My local IRL friends are some folks I met during my days as a BBS sysop ~35 years ago. My far away IRL friends are folks online where we felt motivated to treat eachother as friends instead of dangerous randos. (Risky? Perhaps. We're all simply too old to give a shit.)

That's still not answering my question. Where do you make those "far away IRL friends"? Most commercial platforms today discourage (because it is bad for engagement) users from building close ties with individual other users even if said users are willing to let their guard down. The user base of open and easily findable non-commercial platforms has collapsed. Your posts are dangling some kind of 2026 Shangri-La befo…

Reddit. Discord. HN. (Definitely not Facebook. That whole thing is resolutely toxic.)

I do not care what the platform encourages or discourages. If others do care and this precludes friendship, then: So it is.

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#259

Post by TFNA »

ssl-3 wrote: post #257
TFNA wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's still not answering my question. Where do you make those "far away IRL friends"? Most commercial platforms today discourage (because it is bad for engagement) users from building close ties with individual other users even if said users are willing to let their guard down. The user base of open and easily findable non-commercial platforms has collapsed. Your posts are dangling some kind of 2026 Shangri-La befo…

Reddit. Discord. HN. (Definitely not Facebook. That whole thing is resolutely toxic.) I do not care what the platform encourages or discourages. If others do care and this precludes friendship, then: So it is.

You have seriously made contacts on Reddit or HN that have led to meeting people IRL when you visit their regions or they visit yours? Even way back when IRL meetups between users of internet forums were common, Reddit was already famous for having a culture where that wasn't at all likely due to the design of the site.

As for HN, there is no DM feature and only a minority of users give any contact info in their profiles. In over a decade here, I have never seen one user passing contact info to another user in public.

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#260

Post by inigyou »

spacedcowboy wrote: post #250
inigyou wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You call it a "Reddit alternative" but that's not really how the world works. People don't go out looking for Reddit-like sites, stumble across Reddit and sign up. People are just going about their business, find Reddit, and eventually feel pressured to sign up so they can post, comment or vote. The funnel starts with people stumbling across engagement-worthy content on your site, which only exists and is findable if…

Hey, everyone starts somewhere :) The “prime directive” of the site is “do not track”. Historically that’s been irrelevant to the internet at large, but I think there is a growing feeling of disquiet over just how spied-on, measured, packaged, and sold we all are. If that undercurrent grows, the world might be a different place in a year or two. Cheers

Reddit itself populated its site with bot content scraped from other sites, and presented in a way users liked more, long before it had enough UGC. That's why comments didn't exist for the first year or so of its existence - the lack of comments would have betrayed how many users there weren't.
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