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EVE Online moves to Python 3

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Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#111

Post by vladms »

santiagobasulto wrote: post #93
greatgib wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it is quite bad, but just we are now used to it. In the same way that when you ask Windows users about all the bugs and problems they have with their system, they often say that they don't have any. And ten seconds later, will click "ok" on a random crash popup they didn't even read the content of.

Can you elaborate? Why is Python asyncio bad?

Not the OP but my impression with asyncio was that it's great for the uses case it was built for (hence the "no problems") but if you need to do something a bit different it can become an annoyance (hence the "unexpected bugs").

I see it for a specialized solution for a specific class of problems, which can lead to surprises if your problem evolves. There are always trade-offs to be made (performance, flexibility, hardware cost, etc.), asyncio just has different characteristics than the alternatives. Maybe since a upper bound of concurrent users it is always a great (the best?) solution, someone with more experience along all the design and requirements space could comment.

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#112

Post by wincy »

HappySweeney wrote: post #75
causality0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was kind of a blessing for me that I was forced to quit after they introduced PLEX and in doing created a conversion rate for ISK to dollars. Suddenly I was too aware of how worthless everything I was doing was. It's one thing to spend an evening grinding to buy that new ship, it's another when you know you were grinding for 73 cents an hour. Risking losing a ship you spent a week earning the ISK for is thrilling…

I was a criminal, and me and my crew would pull in about $200 worth of isk daily

Yeah it made my day when I’d pop some T3 cruiser gang in wormhole space with my buddies.

It was substantially less fun when I was on the other side of that and got scanned down in my officer fit Archon and popped. Finally I said to myself “why am I doing this to myself?” and quit. My wife approved.

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#113

Post by IshKebab »

santiagobasulto wrote: post #26

When python started incorporating asyncio my initial reaction was fairly negative. I was behaving like a grumpy graybeard programmer ("kids these days should learn how to use concurrency instead of working on a new runtime altogether!" [0]). But after using it for a production project I have to say I'm deeply satisfied and surprised by the maturity, quality of APIs and performance in general. I was proven wrong and I…

Yeah I dunno, the first time I tried to use asyncio I ran into a bug that nobody knew how to solve. Can't remember what it was but generally if I use something for the first time and immediately hit a bug... Yeah I'm not using that thing if I can help it.

I mean that's true for Python in general, but sadly these days you can't really avoid it.

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#114

Post by Bluestein »

yunnpp wrote: post #105
ryukoposting wrote: post #70

Some basic sample code for stackless python, for those like me who had never heard of it: https://github.com/stackless-dev/stacklessexamples/blob/main... Say "stackless tasklet" five times fast.

less task, let stack

Load-bearing bear loading.-

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#115

Post by EA-3167 »

wincy wrote: post #109
Loughla wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVE is on the list with Dwarf Fortress for me. I'm interested in it. I absolutely see the appeal of them, and wish I had played them instead of WoW back when I was 20. But today? Ain't nobody got time for that.

As someone who really no life fit and played WoW, Dwarf Fortress, and EVE in my 20s, you didn’t miss much. My most momentous EVE achievement was betraying my online “friends” who had mostly stopped playing, blowing up all their expensive ships for the insurance payout, then like a true space pirate losing all my ill gotten gains playing Space Poker. EVE (and other MMOs) had their moment and the ideas of MMOs with a p…

It's worth saying that whatever they call it, GTA: Online is basically an MMO and it's one of the top three most popular game on Earth iirc. In fact I think only Tetris and Minecraft beat it.

Looking at what GTA6 is shaping up to be, and wondering how R* is evolving the online side, I think we might simply have seen MMO's turn into something people our age don't recognize.

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#116

Post by Agentlien »

Loughla wrote: post #91
ricardobayes wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep an eye out for EVE vanguard, an Eve-related extraction FPS. It might scratch the itch for many who perhaps enjoyed the universe but don't want to (or can't) spend the enormous time to ramp up again.

EVE is on the list with Dwarf Fortress for me. I'm interested in it. I absolutely see the appeal of them, and wish I had played them instead of WoW back when I was 20. But today? Ain't nobody got time for that.

I had a friend who was really into EVE online and showed me about 20 years ago. It felt too much like waiting and spreadsheets for me.

I got into Dwarf Fortress around 2015 and I was hooked. These days it's something I often play together with my son. I love how dynamic and deep it feels. It was such a privilege to get to buy a copy when it finally came to Steam.

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#117

Post by scrapcode »

wincy wrote: post #109
Loughla wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVE is on the list with Dwarf Fortress for me. I'm interested in it. I absolutely see the appeal of them, and wish I had played them instead of WoW back when I was 20. But today? Ain't nobody got time for that.

As someone who really no life fit and played WoW, Dwarf Fortress, and EVE in my 20s, you didn’t miss much. My most momentous EVE achievement was betraying my online “friends” who had mostly stopped playing, blowing up all their expensive ships for the insurance payout, then like a true space pirate losing all my ill gotten gains playing Space Poker. EVE (and other MMOs) had their moment and the ideas of MMOs with a p…

I still can't figure out what the appeal of WoW was, but I'm guessing it was the insanely large community?

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#118

Post by wmchen »

sph wrote: post #62
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #19

Can an experienced player gives us a summary of what's the "vibe" of the EVE online community these days? I was lightly involved ~15 years ago.

The thing I miss the most about Eve Online is the immersive free market economy. I long for a true, in-depth economic MMO more than the space veneer around the order book. Buy low, sell high. Specialize in industry, trading, transportation. Add a little bit of light PvP to inject chaos and it's more fun than playing the stock market. (I am actually designing such a game, but I'm open to suggestions) My main activity…

I haven't played it, but a commonly suggested alternative for EVE Online that revolves around spreadsheets and a free market is Prosperous Universe.

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#119

Post by Rohansi »

dyauspitr wrote: post #96
Rohansi wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switching away from Python would not fix this. EVE Online runs its world without instancing or shards, meaning you cannot scale out the simulation when a single zone is overcrowded. Pretty much every other online game avoids this problem by making it impossible to have thousands of players in the same area because networking every players' actions to thousands of players is always problematic

But one of EVE’s biggest selling points is specifically the 1000s of players in one area.

Yes, I am saying time dilation is a necessary compromise because of that.

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#120

Post by lelanthran »

yunnpp wrote: post #105
ryukoposting wrote: post #70

Some basic sample code for stackless python, for those like me who had never heard of it: https://github.com/stackless-dev/stacklessexamples/blob/main... Say "stackless tasklet" five times fast.

less task, let stack

> less task, let stack

More Music, Less Nessman

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