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Doctors are finally learning to manage antidepressant withdrawal

newscientist.com

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Re: Doctors are finally learning to manage antidepressant withdrawal

#321

Post by micromacrofoot »

in_cahoots wrote: post #302
micromacrofoot wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

chemistry of complex systems you don't experience side-effects now, but you will if you need to stop taking it

Been on hormonal birth control for 20 years. I've stopped twice to get pregnant. No side effects. I don't know why you're so confident here.

I already answered why, it's chemistry. Everyone has side effects, not everyone notices them. You can not introduce a medication, or any substance for that matter, into the human body that does not have any side effects — it's impossible.

Re: Doctors are finally learning to manage antidepressant withdrawal

#322

Post by bcjdjsndon »

projektfu wrote: post #244
bcjdjsndon wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's nasty because of the assumption that someone who is taking medication has "buried the cause further", in other words, done something to paper over the rent in their psyche that could have been fixed some other way. In my case, I had depression for no apparent reason, and I went through dynamic psychotherapy, which is basically about finding that reason. That failed, I got worse, and basically was disabled after…

> In my case, I had depression for no apparent reason, and I went through dynamic psychotherapy, which is basically about finding that reason.

What was happening with you at that point, where were you at? Riding ecstatically high with your wife kids and large circle of friends, the constant socialising and good times?

Re: Doctors are finally learning to manage antidepressant withdrawal

#323

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

tsoukase wrote: post #177

All cases are possible with S{S|N}RIs (I am a doctor but I know a little regexp). Patients that took them for two months and never needed again and others that cannot stop them after 20y. The start, the stop and every restart of the drug needs an indication so it should be approached with the same care as any medical decision. It's not right to call it withdrawal. These drugs are not addictive like benzos or alcohol…

> It's not right to call it withdrawal. These drugs are not addictive like benzos or alcohol are.

What does “not addictive” matter? Clearly, SSRIs are something that induce a dependency, because the withdrawal symptoms are horrific. A drug doesn't need to give you a high to create a dependency problem.

> If any symptom reappears it's just that the mental disease most usually changed form after so long time.

How do you know that? This is a problem with some other kinds of psychiatric medications too (certain antipsychotics for example), the reckless assumption that anything that happens after cessation of the drug was just an underlying symptom that the drug had suppressed. That could be the case, but you mustn't just take it for granted.

I think most worrying is the cases where a drug has only a placebo effect until the point of withdrawal. If your underlying bias is towards assuming the drug is effective, then the disaster following withdrawal might make you think the drug was holding it back this whole time. But in fact, the drug may have caused the entire harm.

Re: Doctors are finally learning to manage antidepressant withdrawal

#324

Post by orangedog »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #318
orangedog wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The most common side effects reported by patients in the study by Hu et al1 of 401 outpatients taking SSRIs were drowsiness (38%), dry mouth (34%), and sexual dysfunction (34%) > which was conducted in 1999-2000, questioned patients about side effects via phone interviews within 75 to 105 days of starting antidepressant therapy. The side effects deemed most bothersome were sexual dysfunction (17%) It's no where nea…

“It's no where near those numbers” “get inflated in anecdotes” Just because one study has the number 34% in it, does not prove the numbers I gave were wrong and does not mean they are anecdotal. This is something that’s been studied from many angles and there’s more than one number that’s defensible based on the context and dataset. For example, even the study you cited says: “In a study of 344 patients by Montejo-Go…

Thank you for providing sources.

Re: Doctors are finally learning to manage antidepressant withdrawal

#325

Post by bcjdjsndon »

bcjdjsndon wrote: post #312
krupan wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You dismissed ONE example. I guess you're right on the general case!

Two different people gave that same Churchill example, it's obviously a common example that gets bandied around

Oh it was fuckin you twice lol

Re: Doctors are finally learning to manage antidepressant withdrawal

#327

Post by bcjdjsndon »

drakythe wrote: post #267
bcjdjsndon wrote: post #160

[flagged]

Diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and on stimulants (went through 3 kinds before we found one that seemed to help). What "high"? Our brain chemistry literally works differently than neurotypical people and the stimulants don't get us high. In fact they often have a calming effect. I had to fight not to fall asleep at my desk two days this week (Not entirely the medication's fault, lotta family stress wrecking my sleep…

> In fact they often have a calming effect.

That's clucky addiction mate same reason opioids can make addicts chatty and full of life again if they've been struggling to score all day

Re: Doctors are finally learning to manage antidepressant withdrawal

#328

Post by bcjdjsndon »

chownie wrote: post #239
richardlblair wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One should not question the seriousness of ADHD or the benefits of an appropriate treatment plan. One should question the rate of which it is diagnosed, and who is getting diagnosed.

> One should question the rate of which it is diagnosed, and who is getting diagnosed. The medical consensus after multiple enquiries in the UK has come to: 1. The rate of diagnosis is far too low (the evidence of this being we're catching people as adults who should've been caught as children). 2. Our diagnostic criteria aren't inclusive enough (we have historically missed inattentive presenting ADHD, we have histor…

> These results are politically unpalatable so the enquiry is I think currently being run for the third time, but signs point to ADHD overdiagnosis being a hoax/fake news/whatever you call it.

And here's one for you: hundreds of thousands of scroungers and workshy young adults are saying they have ADHD to get pip and other perks... Because this is even less of a charade than back pain used to be, you can legit go on holiday with ADHD, they even give people mobility passes in the UK for ADHD, screwing over people in actual wheelchairs who really do suffer in society

Re: Doctors are finally learning to manage antidepressant withdrawal

#329

Post by movespebp »

krupan wrote: post #229
bb123 wrote: post #126

There is a real lack of transparency in communicating some of the long term impacts of SSRIs to new patients. When I was prescribed sertraline not one doctor mentioned the massive (and sometimes permanent!!) sexual side effects, the likelihood of weight gain or how brutal it would be to taper off. Also, I ended up ignoring my doctor's (way too aggressive) tapering schedule and managing my own down-dosing with a pill…

Were you experiencing side effects that made you want to get off? For the vast majority of people there really are none.

That's not true. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2719451/ places the figure experiencing side effects at 40%, with 25% reporting those effects as serious. It's also telling that only just under half of those experiencing side effects ever reported those side effects to their providers - likely contributing to doctors getting a skewed perception of the real adverse effects risk.

What's missing is also follow up - for some those effects don't resolve after stopping the drug.

Re: Doctors are finally learning to manage antidepressant withdrawal

#330

Post by bcjdjsndon »

dpark wrote: post #320
bcjdjsndon wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously not.

Then don’t ask about whether the drugs cure the disease or just “bury it further”. Own your opinion and state clearly that you don’t believe depression is real. Don’t argue silly tangents that serve only to obfuscate your actual point.

What might the difference between between ADHD and ALS though? One is a neurodegenerative disorder and the other is indiscernible from some ditsy airhead who can't be bothered to do things
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