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EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

epa.gov

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Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#171

Post by rogerrogerr »

ceejayoz wrote: post #62
iso1631 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what the leadership wanted. And as they won the election. Not like in 2016 (where more people voted for the other guy but they won due to the difference in power of votes), or in 2020 (where they lost), they won a clear outright victory, it's exactly what the USA wanted.

I'm not sure it's fair to characterize 49.8% of the vote as a "clear outright victory". Harris got 48.3%; that's a pretty close to even split. The majority of voters didn't vote for this.

It is nonsensical to consider popular vote numbers in an election not decided on the popular vote. How many Democrats stayed home in red states because they knew their vote wouldn't matter? And how many Republicans stayed home in blue states for the same reason? It's unknowable. I'm all for the presidency being decided by popular vote, but until it is there is no point using those statistically-flawed numbers in any debate.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#172

Post by pfdietz »

voakbasda wrote: post #154
pfdietz wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effects of this will be reduced by the realization that these regulations can be changed in the future. No one will make a large capital investment if it could be shut down in a few years.

Most regulations provide a grandfather clause that exempt existing players in the game.

There is no need in law for that. And if previous regulations were enacted in bad faith, it suck to be you if you depended on them.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#173

Post by tialaramex »

inigyou wrote: post #124
andsoitis wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> expect data center to be data center + coal power plant soon Why do you think that’s likely?

Because coal is the cheapest source of electricity that isn't banned in the USA.

Are you looking at a textbook from the 1990s or something? I'm sure that was true at some point, but it hasn't been true for a long time.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#174

Post by testing22321 »

bob1029 wrote: post #96
pyrophane wrote: post #37

> Clean Air Act (CAA) Acid Rain Program (ARP) does not apply to power generation facilities that are not connected to a public electricity grid, commonly referred to as “islanded” power generation facilities. This of course makes no sense whatever, as whether or not a power generator is connected to the grid has nothing to do with its environmental impact.

Most generators not connected to the grid are for emergency backup purposes. Granted, this carve out is now clearly being abused, but the original intent is quite rational. If we enforced strict regulations on all generators without any exceptions at all, your sewage lift station might not have a backup source anymore.

> If we enforced strict regulations on all generators without any exceptions at all, your sewage lift station might not have a backup source anymore.

No need for the FUD.

It would just mean the backup generator connected to the sewage lift station must meet emissions regulations, like in every developed country on earth.

If you’re trying to say there are simply some generators that can’t meet emissions standards, I’m going to say you just aren’t trying.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#175

Post by jacobolus »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #152
martythemaniak wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framing Trump/MAGA as some kind of divine retribution against the sins of liberals great! All bad things are caused by liberals, because MAGA is mere reaction to their actions. MAGA have no mind of their own, and thus no responsibility for their own actions.

These same types of evil people exist in droves on the right too. They just circle jerk about different topics and peddle different forms of progressivism (lowercase P!!). Right now the establishment is somewhat catering to them, much to the chagrin of the useful idiots who are all in on the other team. They were the ones screeching all throughout the last administration. At the end of the day has very little to do w…

The so-called "Tea Party" was not a "populist movement". It was a billionaire-funded (notably by the Koch brothers, but also by fossil fuel and tobacco companies) astroturf operation.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#176

Post by chinathrow »

pyrophane wrote: post #37

> Clean Air Act (CAA) Acid Rain Program (ARP) does not apply to power generation facilities that are not connected to a public electricity grid, commonly referred to as “islanded” power generation facilities. This of course makes no sense whatever, as whether or not a power generator is connected to the grid has nothing to do with its environmental impact.

At this point, they can just disband the EPA, what a bunch of crooks.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#177

Post by dukeofdoom »

inigyou wrote: post #143
dukeofdoom wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, they'll be unemployed until they chose to do something else that people will pay for. Like I was reading some guy is making downloads for Minecraft and making great living in it (science fiction a few decades ago). Worse case scenerio, move to the country side, and homestead. Thats how people survived wars and famines. Surely they can survive a tech transition.

How much money is your homestead making?

Probably not much. But even if it's zero, it's still better than falling behind in a City. The profit margins of being a wagie living in a city, is just a few hundred dollars left over a month, if that. Statistics back this up. Almost all of the money goes to rent and basic necessities now. Most people are broke! In a relatively wealthy country like Canada, something like 10 million / 40 million have food insecurity. 2 million regularly go to food banks. They're trapped by the system, and failing city life and rising inflation. If anything homesteading would be preferable as it would give some independence (own their land) and better shot at food security.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#178

Post by ceejayoz »

s3p wrote: post #163
ceejayoz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it's fair to characterize 49.8% of the vote as a "clear outright victory". Harris got 48.3%; that's a pretty close to even split. The majority of voters didn't vote for this.

The majority of voters who voted for president got the president they wanted. With a president comes admin of all these agencies. So yeah they voted for this.

> The majority of voters who voted for president got the president they wanted.

Again, no. 49.8% is not a majority. It is a plurality.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#179

Post by folkrav »

consensus1 wrote: post #95
sensanaty wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It literally is just a cartoon villain plan. The AI companies look at something called the "Acid Rain Program" and think to themselves "Fuck that, what's a bit of acid rain going to do?". I truly cannot comprehend the mindset here as hard as I try

The AI companies look at something called the "endless government bureaucracy" and they think to themselves "fuck that, I'm not waiting 10 years for all that bullshit, I'll just use the loophole." I truly cannot comprehend any other reaction because I would rather have my fingernails ripped out than deal with years of government bureaucracy.

Why am I still surprised to see such braindead takes on this site

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#180

Post by discreteevent »

consensus1 wrote: post #95
sensanaty wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It literally is just a cartoon villain plan. The AI companies look at something called the "Acid Rain Program" and think to themselves "Fuck that, what's a bit of acid rain going to do?". I truly cannot comprehend the mindset here as hard as I try

The AI companies look at something called the "endless government bureaucracy" and they think to themselves "fuck that, I'm not waiting 10 years for all that bullshit, I'll just use the loophole." I truly cannot comprehend any other reaction because I would rather have my fingernails ripped out than deal with years of government bureaucracy.

> I would rather have my fingernails ripped out than deal with years of government bureaucracy.

These are just words. What matters are your actions. Your action is that you will cause other people to suffer pollution in order to enrich yourself. Why can't you stand up like a man and just say that that is what you want to do?

And if you say "I am doing this to benefit humanity who need even more AI so badly" - Well those are also just words.

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