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EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

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Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#141

Post by dukeofdoom »

KaiserPro wrote: post #88
dukeofdoom wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is making working from home much easier than ever before. You don't really need to live in a city to have a tech career now, and it will accelerate. We don't really need so many office workers going forward in cities. Almost anything they decide to do instead, will more productive in the economy than being a useless cubicle monkey thats no longer needed because AI can do it better.

ok, but if AI is doing it better, then they won't be working remote, they'd be just unemployed.

Sure, they'll be unemployed until they chose to do something else that people will pay for. Like I was reading some guy is making downloads for Minecraft and making great living in it (science fiction a few decades ago). Worse case scenerio, move to the country side, and homestead. Thats how people survived wars and famines. Surely they can survive a tech transition.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#142

Post by inigyou »

Noaidi wrote: post #42
bix6 wrote: post #19

How the fuck does anyone still support these world destroying assholes.

Everyone is doing it all around you. We can mostly blame the people who make AI but we also have to blame everyone who’s using it. We can boycott AI until they make it safe and clean to use. Until then, everyone’s to blame that uses it or builds it.

Boycotts basically don't work unless you get a big percentage of the company's customers to simultaneously agree to boycott that company because they are really angry. Nobody's really angry at chatgpt.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#143

Post by inigyou »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #141
KaiserPro wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok, but if AI is doing it better, then they won't be working remote, they'd be just unemployed.

Sure, they'll be unemployed until they chose to do something else that people will pay for. Like I was reading some guy is making downloads for Minecraft and making great living in it (science fiction a few decades ago). Worse case scenerio, move to the country side, and homestead. Thats how people survived wars and famines. Surely they can survive a tech transition.

How much money is your homestead making?

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#144

Post by jimt1234 »

tastyfreeze wrote: post #10

Hmm... rules for thee but not for me. Sounds like the beginning of the end for the EPA. Two tiered rules breed resentment. There are already plenty of people that don't like the EPA. Making exceptions just makes it easier to argue the EPA is useless or just a tool for oppressing the little guy.

> Sounds like the beginning of the end for the EPA

The beginning of the end of the EPA started the day Trump was sworn in. In the last few years several cases have been decided by this Supreme Court that have effectively reduced the EPA to an advisory board, like a group of consultants that have no real authority over anything.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#145

Post by joshstrange »

pyrophane wrote: post #37

> Clean Air Act (CAA) Acid Rain Program (ARP) does not apply to power generation facilities that are not connected to a public electricity grid, commonly referred to as “islanded” power generation facilities. This of course makes no sense whatever, as whether or not a power generator is connected to the grid has nothing to do with its environmental impact.

No, no, no you don't understand it's beyond the environment, it's not in an environment, it's been towed beyond the environment.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#146

Post by llm_nerd »

techpression wrote: post #48
pyrophane wrote: post #37

> Clean Air Act (CAA) Acid Rain Program (ARP) does not apply to power generation facilities that are not connected to a public electricity grid, commonly referred to as “islanded” power generation facilities. This of course makes no sense whatever, as whether or not a power generator is connected to the grid has nothing to do with its environmental impact.

Pretty insane, expect data center to be data center + coal power plant soon, why bother with generators or the pesky local grid.

A number of data centres have been proposed in Alberta, including a giant Meta one. Alberta has a derelict, obsolete power grid that can't even serve the current population, so you might wonder how that is possible.

They're coupling them with dedicated natural gas power plants. Meta finally stopped the green charade and simply dropped out of RE100, as they're all just going full speed ahead on destroying the planet.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#147

Post by inamorty »

consensus1 wrote: post #95
sensanaty wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It literally is just a cartoon villain plan. The AI companies look at something called the "Acid Rain Program" and think to themselves "Fuck that, what's a bit of acid rain going to do?". I truly cannot comprehend the mindset here as hard as I try

The AI companies look at something called the "endless government bureaucracy" and they think to themselves "fuck that, I'm not waiting 10 years for all that bullshit, I'll just use the loophole." I truly cannot comprehend any other reaction because I would rather have my fingernails ripped out than deal with years of government bureaucracy.

Do you get upset when staff have to wash their hands at your local eatery?

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#148

Post by tzs »

0xy wrote: post #11

First they say data centers should pay their own way on power infrastructure, then when they start springing up entirely off-grid and fully self-funded power infrastructure, suddenly there's a new problem. The problem was never power or water (water being a known Chinese spy op after Karen Hao was caught exaggerating water usage by 1,000x in her book).

It is not a new problem. Look at Musk's Tennessee data centers to see the problems with off-grid data centers that don't have good pollution controls.

Second, in many places power is a problem with AI data centers that do want grid power. I don't think you realize just how many new AI data center projects there are and how much more power they use than a normal data center. Combined with the short timeline these projects want they need grid expansion far beyond what anyone had in their long term grid planning.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#149

Post by dalyons »

claytongulick wrote: post #94
metalliqaz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's consistent leadership. Malevolent and stupid, but consistent.

Are you sure you're aiming your ire in the right direction in this case? The EPA provided guidance that the CAA (Clean Air Act) itself was written to not apply in these cases. Shouldn't you be angry at the authors of the law?

You think the guidance was written as a good faith interpretation of the law? Cmon.

Re: EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws

#150

Post by ballsac »

rpdillon wrote: post #77
MisterTea wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are already plenty of people that don't like the EPA. Rich assholes who are upset they can't throw their trash on the ground. Anyone else is parroting propaganda generated by said rich assholes.

I don't think that's true. There's probably a valid critique that they're doing their job badly.

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