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CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

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Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#601

Post by senordevnyc »

SkyeCA wrote: post #571
senordevnyc wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he didn’t. Not by any logic that doesn’t also implicate every other executive, employee, vendor, and customer of every health insurance company, plus a huge number of other industries. To the point where the blame is so diffuse that it’s a pointless exercise. Edit since I can’t reply: if “murderer” means someone who takes actions that have nth-order effects of someone dying, with no reasonable or discernible limi…

The CEO is the leader and should be the one pointed at when companies cause harm.

So let's hold him accountable for the illegal things he did!

Oh wait, he didn't break any laws? Hmm...well, fuck the idea of having a legal system I guess, let's just cheer every vigilante who decides to murder people in the street based on their own feelings. I'm sure that'll work out well.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#602

Post by danesparza »

deltarholamda wrote: post #565
crnkofe wrote: post #433

To be fair I think its far easier to automate leadership jobs despite how they believe in greater self-worth. As a developer I keep running into problems that require some measure of creativity to solve or workaround. And regardless of how many years I've been in the industry I'm not running out of issues. They just keep getting more obscure. On the other hand leadership communication and problem resolution seem like…

The value-add for a meatbag CEO is the physical networking they do. They have to do executive functions as well, which could quite possibly be replaced with a well-trained LLM and even possibly exceed in overall quality. But an LLM can't go to conferences; they can't have Top Secret Meetings where a merger or acquisition is discussed; they can't run into Jim Executive of BigCorp Inc. in Vail and scheme up some big ne…

"But an LLM can't go to conferences; they can't have Top Secret Meetings where a merger or acquisition is discussed"

Sure they can - especially when conferences are designed to have an API.

And when more companies are run by an AI, they will absolutely have secret meetings to discuss a merger.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#603

Post by abeppu »

crnkofe wrote: post #433

To be fair I think its far easier to automate leadership jobs despite how they believe in greater self-worth. As a developer I keep running into problems that require some measure of creativity to solve or workaround. And regardless of how many years I've been in the industry I'm not running out of issues. They just keep getting more obscure. On the other hand leadership communication and problem resolution seem like…

I think also it's extremely hard to fairly judge high level decisions whose outcomes may not materialize for a very long time. This makes it genuinely hard for humans to get better (and one gets the impression that most of them don't) with more experience at the helm of a large and complex org. But it also means that it's hard to evaluate or train a machine on the task. You can maybe automate getting something plausible out, but how would you know if it was _good_ in a timely way? So how do you review a configuration or prompt change in this repo?

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#604

Post by naasking »

TwelveEyes wrote: post #540
crnkofe wrote: post #433

To be fair I think its far easier to automate leadership jobs despite how they believe in greater self-worth. As a developer I keep running into problems that require some measure of creativity to solve or workaround. And regardless of how many years I've been in the industry I'm not running out of issues. They just keep getting more obscure. On the other hand leadership communication and problem resolution seem like…

I strongly disagree with this take. AI does not have the theory of mind to manage complex social environments, and AI does not have the context and intuition and experience required to replace a CEO, any more than a random external worker could take over their job for a day.

> I strongly disagree with this take. AI does not have the theory of mind to manage complex social environments

Does Musk have a complex theory of mind to manage his employees, or does he just have a brutally efficient organizational strategy and gets rid of anything that doesn't fit? I think it's more the latter, and an LLM can absolutely do that.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#605

Post by senordevnyc »

lovich wrote: post #545
senordevnyc wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, these class warfare conspiracists see class warfare in everything. Everything in human society gets reduced down to one side is the oppressor and one side is the victim. And they’re always the victim. EDIT since I can’t reply: It’s true that capital and labor often have competing goals, but they also have alignment at times. And labor also has different goals from consumers, from other groups of lab…

> I also object to the constant claims of conspiracy among capital holders. Capital holders are also in extremely fierce competition with each other, and they are in turn beholden to consumers / buyers, etc. Cause we’ve never seen capital holders collude to keep wages down. Certainly never in the technology industry. It’s just pure competition as nature intended.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employe…

Of course we see all kinds of illegal, anti-competitive, anti-consumer actions and collusions, etc. We also see all kinds of horrible actions from wage earners, consumers, the government, etc. What is your point?

I'm clearly talking about an attitude that basically all capital owners are in secret cahoots with each other to destroy their sworn enemy: workers. Aka, the class war they don't want you to believe is happening.

It's all nonsense.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#606

Post by throwup238 »

insanitybit wrote: post #514
petcat wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think its far easier to automate leadership jobs I have the opposite opinion. I've never been a CEO, and have intentionally avoided any sort of manager/C-level opportunities at all the various companies I've worked specifically because they require a lot of effort at personnel management, investor relationships, customer relationships, and generally things requiring having to talk to people . That kind of thing j…

Having been an engineer and then a founder (and CEO), neither can be automated. Both require organizational work to be effective, and developer productivity is so profitable in an outsized way that you'd always just hire more if you could, even if they were all 10x as productive (maybe this changes at some scale). I'd have loved for an AI to assist with a few things as a CEO but we would have probably just shipped fa…

> developer productivity is so profitable in an outsized way that you'd always just hire more if you could, even if they were all 10x as productive (maybe this changes at some scale).

Definitely. Software is a digital arms race between companies so they’ll just keep expanding. I’m sure at some scale that breaks down but we are far from that point. My lumberyard, a few miles away from one of ASML’s US facilities, still runs its POS and inventory tracking on old DOS machines. In a decade they could probably make more money selling them as antiques.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#607

Post by Calazon »

phoghed wrote: post #483
fwip wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: am I missing some sarcasm here? When you say a CEO has to "talk to people", and then say it can't be done by a chat bot. That's literally the only thing a chat bot can do.

Every person all the way down the chain thinks everyone else can be replaced by AI, but have some good reason that they themselves (or their role) can’t be. Personally I think that almost any role can be augmented by AI, but very few can be outright replaced that we’re not already very close to an RPA bot replacing them anyway. Then you consider that they might be able to reduce headcount because of productivity incr…

> But why wouldn’t they want to use the budget they already have for these newly more productive people and get even more work done overall?

For all the same reasons many companies are eager to cut labor costs whenever possible. There can be a variety of bottlenecks to scaling and it's often not as simple as hire more people to make more profit, even if you have extra capital available.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#608

Post by honr »

deltarholamda wrote: post #565
crnkofe wrote: post #433

To be fair I think its far easier to automate leadership jobs despite how they believe in greater self-worth. As a developer I keep running into problems that require some measure of creativity to solve or workaround. And regardless of how many years I've been in the industry I'm not running out of issues. They just keep getting more obscure. On the other hand leadership communication and problem resolution seem like…

The value-add for a meatbag CEO is the physical networking they do. They have to do executive functions as well, which could quite possibly be replaced with a well-trained LLM and even possibly exceed in overall quality. But an LLM can't go to conferences; they can't have Top Secret Meetings where a merger or acquisition is discussed; they can't run into Jim Executive of BigCorp Inc. in Vail and scheme up some big ne…

I am not sure if that is the main value add. I have repeatedly heard that taking responsibility and being on the hook for the decisions (even if AI hands you the decision and all the research and homework that went into it) is the most important feature.

I guess starting with and/or developing a good network is one of the main ways they can gain the confidence for taking responsibility.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#610

Post by ilovetux »

honr wrote: post #608
deltarholamda wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value-add for a meatbag CEO is the physical networking they do. They have to do executive functions as well, which could quite possibly be replaced with a well-trained LLM and even possibly exceed in overall quality. But an LLM can't go to conferences; they can't have Top Secret Meetings where a merger or acquisition is discussed; they can't run into Jim Executive of BigCorp Inc. in Vail and scheme up some big ne…

I am not sure if that is the main value add. I have repeatedly heard that taking responsibility and being on the hook for the decisions (even if AI hands you the decision and all the research and homework that went into it) is the most important feature. I guess starting with and/or developing a good network is one of the main ways they can gain the confidence for taking responsibility.

I have yet to see a CEO actually take responsibility for anything. Its always some hand-wavey talk about strategy and unexpected decline in sales. Never once was it "I messed up."

I have, on the other hand, seen boards pile all the blame onto the C-Suite. Seems easy enough to pile the blame on an AI.

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