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Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#131

Post by happymellon »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #45
Eufrat wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that Apple has an extremely special license with ARM partially because they helped fund ARM when it was spun out of Acorn and they are not required to conform to the specifications like other licensees.

Didn't Apple help define the Aarch64 instruction set?

Malicious standards.

See also when Microsoft introduced DocX, Apple products corrupted documents because Apple followed the standard that Microsoft had specified but turns out they didn't follow it themselves.

Sabotage others on things you don't have to do.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#132

Post by simonh »

OroPla wrote: post #127
simonh wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kind of how open source development works, right? We buy hardware and we use software people wrote for free. What am I missing?

My steelman read of that would be that there is a difference between paying Apple a premium to make installing Linux hard vs. paying, say, Framework a premium to make installing Linux easy.

Except the Asahi Linux team are pretty insistent that Apple isn't making it particularly hard. Yes the hardware is novel, but hardly any hardware vendors share low level details on the Intel side either, all that has to be reverse engineered anyway.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#133

Post by xoa »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #112

I've pretty much given up on Asahi because of the years-long delays, and because there's no performant way to share disk space for data with MacOS. By running Linux in a VM on MacOS on Apple silicon, you sacrifice some raw speed but in return you still get to run MacOS apps occasionally and have access to the same data from either MacOS or Linux without having to duplicate everything. And battery life is reasonable,…

Not saying your VM approach isn't right for you, but:

>and because there's no performant way to share disk space for data with MacOS

Have you tried a ZFS partition? If it's a desktop system use iSCSI to network storage (I'm not running Linux directly on my Studio or M4 mini but I still put my Home folder on the network)?

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#134

Post by coldtea »

happosai wrote: post #36
JLO64 wrote: post #5

> Thanks to the combined efforts of mildsunrise and chaos_princess, we discovered that ACE3 has pretty much the same register set as CD3217, only wrapped in a SPMI interface instead of addressed over I2C. Both the SPMI interface and ACE3 itself are now working in Asahi Linux, bringing USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt support to all M3 series devices. When I got my M3 Pro MBP, I got it with the intention of eventually installi…

[flagged]

"I paid thousands of dollars to apple who provided a great hw product with their own OS preinstalled and free".

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#135

Post by ndiddy »

simonh wrote: post #123
happosai wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's kind of how open source development works, right? We buy hardware and we use software people wrote for free. What am I missing?

A lot of hardware gets Linux support because the hardware manufacturer itself (Intel, AMD, Mediatek, NXP, Marvell, etc) takes responsibility for writing and upstreaming Linux drivers. This is how companies like Lenovo or Dell can offer systems with Linux preinstalled.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#136

Post by znpy »

ksec wrote: post #126
znpy wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And?

You said > "Considering how much better m-series CPUs are, " And I give some thoughts into may be they are not "much better". And in that case may be sticking to spec and not Thinking Different on certain things matters more.

sounds like a baseless claim frankly.

they are still better. better than previous gen, essentially better than competition.

only the latest intel cpu are beginning to get "comparable" with previous m-series cpu.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#137

Post by Parodper »

strbean wrote: post #70
stiray wrote: post #69

I hope they will support M4 soon, I cant stand macos and its desire to be different than everything else by custom keyboard shortcuts etc. After 2 years of usage, I still have issues with basic actions like copy paste. edit: omg, writing this post, i checked if there is some way to use linux shortcuts and there is (Kanesh/KMonad or Karabiner-Elements). Maybe my suffering will finally stop.

Counterpoint: OSX has the only sane copy paste shortcuts. The linux standard of "sometimes ctrl-c/v, sometimes shift-ctrl-c/v, and if you mess up you might kill your task" is preposterous.

Ctrl/Shift+Insert are the actual standard, from IBM's CUA.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#138

Post by j16sdiz »

ksec wrote: post #40

>The ARM specification mandates that cores in WFI loops should preserve all state. This is not the default mode on Apple Silicon. I sometimes do wonder at what point do ARM find and test these stuff and ask Apple to follow. Obviously this is not the first time we see such thing happened.

This is allowed as long as you hold the architectural license (which Apple does), and the register is not exposed to userspace (this register is accessible only from kernel)

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#139

Post by kelnos »

simonh wrote: post #132
OroPla wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My steelman read of that would be that there is a difference between paying Apple a premium to make installing Linux hard vs. paying, say, Framework a premium to make installing Linux easy.

Except the Asahi Linux team are pretty insistent that Apple isn't making it particularly hard. Yes the hardware is novel, but hardly any hardware vendors share low level details on the Intel side either, all that has to be reverse engineered anyway.

Intel themselves writes a ton of the software for their own hardware that makes in into the Linux kernel.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#140

Post by spankibalt »

euio757 wrote: post #26
dgunay wrote: post #21

I have immense respect for the incredible work that the Asahi team does, but at the rate that Intel and AMD have been catching up on power efficiency I wonder whether anyone will really _have_ to run Linux on M series laptops. There was a clear case for it back when Apple silicon absolutely dominated anything else you could buy but with Panther Lake I'm not so sure that Apple's lead will continue to be big enough to…

But, power efficiency isn't the primary reason I'd like Apple hardware with linux software. Display quality, trackpad quality, overall form factor, and very high RAM space in a laptop would be the primary reasons I'd go with Asahi Linux.

> Display quality, trackpad quality, overall form factor, and very high RAM space in a laptop would be the primary reasons I'd go with [an Apple].

Heh, that's precisely one grouping of reasons I avoid Apple, especially with regards to trackpads and form factor (and, to a lesser degree, displays).

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