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U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

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Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#831

Post by tsimionescu »

raz32dust wrote: post #681
itake wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American that lives abroad. I have first-hand experience how other countries treat 'immigrants'. H1B is a temporary non-immigrant visa. I could never imagine myself buying a home in a country where I don't have permanent access to that real estate. I am not opposed to voting to prevent non-PRs from owning real estate in order to keep housing prices lower for residents and prevent non-immigrants from shooting t…

I think one of the fundamental problem with h1b is that it is labeled as "non-immigrant" whereas for all practical purposes it is really an immigrant visa. Why would a person who is supposedly having rare skills come to a country and spend their best years here without reasonable guarantee of permanency? People buy homes because it is a reasonable belief that they are going to be living here permanently and it has hi…

There is a very common pattern of people who go to work to some other, richer country for a set period of time with the sole purpose of making enough money to achieve an objective back home (provide for family, buy a house, retire, etc). I don't know how common this is between H-1B applicants, but it's extremely common in the EU for example.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#832

Post by bubblethink »

ifwinterco wrote: post #820
DiscoDays wrote: post #808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain a bit more? Not sure what is achieved by forcing people to renew their visas from abroad. I appreciate that, philosophically, it is a way of setting requirements higher, but it does not strike me as principled. From my perspective as an immigrant in the UK, there have got to be so many parameters the UK government can adjust before indulging into performative cruelty. Setting higher requirements for…

If the government refuses a visa renewal while the person is in the country and they don’t comply you have to deport them, which is often problematic. If you make it standard procedure that everyone has to leave the country temporarily to renew their visa, the person is already outside your country when you refuse the renewal. Instead of having a deportation challenged in court and mired in paperwork, you simply don’…

This would be true if visa and status were the same thing. In the US, they are not. Whether you are legally present in the US is governed by status. So what happens is that your status is valid and even renewed or extended in the US. But your visa expires. And you need to renew the visa just to bring the date on the visa to the same date as your status. You literally go to the consulate and show them your other status document, and they stamp your passport with the date from the other status document. It's all quite silly. A bit like the movie Brazil.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#833

Post by grahar64 »

sinecure wrote: post #97
dzonga wrote: post #19

the current admin are working hard to destroy the U.S as if they're foreign agents. not only are they making it hard & unbearable for families of US citizens & PR holders to be together. while at the same time - discouraging talent to come to the US at a crucial time when talent is at a premium due to A.I development. last the backwards energy policy of banning renewable energy.

This was never about talent. It's about companies hiring foreigners on h1b visas at below market wages where their life in the USA is contingent on their job performance forcing them to work harder and longer than their peers to remain in the country. It's a situation that only benefits companies, while harming US citizens who have to compete with the lower wages of foreigners.

The problem is the H1B visa is a lottery not a points based system. As someone who applied for an H1B 5 times and never got it, despite being highly skilled and having a PhD and a well paying job. The only way in was on an intern visa or an Einstein visa. Insane system

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#834

Post by achenet »

bubblethink wrote: post #758
tyre wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would a person who is supposedly having rare skills come to a country and spend their best years here without reasonable guarantee of permanency? I agree with your overall point but the answer here is money. The earning potential in the US vs. e.g. India is drastic.

It's not really money. Frankly, no 20 year old thinks that much about money. They do things that they like, whether that is going to school, working at a job, or starting up. And you don't know about the broken immigration system from the outside. The reason this problem is unique to India is due to country caps/DEI which prevents people from India on H-1B from getting a green card.

I disagree that no 20 year old thinks that much about money.

If you're lucky enough to have had rich enough parents to not have to worry about money too much, yes, you'll probably optimize for doing things you enjoy, but people who spend a lot of their younger years with money issues will sometimes obsess about it and really focus their lives around 'getting rich'.

I've noticed have similar phenomena with people who are deprived of certain important needs in their youth - people who are starved of a certain type of parental affection overcompensating by orienting their lives around getting more of it (eg women with daddy issues who are very promiscuous), people who feel disrespected and downtrodden who become obsessed with social status, people who get bullied and get into martial arts...

If you've ever read Gone With The Wind, there's a line where Scarlett O'Hara says "with God as my witness, I'll never go hungry again". I suspect that many people who have similar experiences will react by orienting their lives in a similar manner. "I was deprived of something important, so I will react by over-indexing on that important thing I was deprived of, to avoid the future pain of being again deprived of it".

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#835

Post by account42 »

hvb2 wrote: post #576
rayiner wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moral issue is the same in both cases: there’s a big sign that says “temporary.” People have chosen to ignore the sign.

No, people are following the rules and politely asking for a renewal in a different country. The issue here is that they're not being denied, the government is basically refusing to make a decision for an indefinite amount of time. I'm assuming most normal cases will get their visas eventually, the question is when. In the meantime the applicant can pay rent in the US, find some place to live abroad and maybe continu…

They are being denied. That's the default state when your visa expires and you have not been granted a new one. What the government is doing is telling people to not bother asking right now because everyone will be denied.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#836

Post by locknitpicker »

somenameforme wrote: post #666
eesmith wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you calling for open border with no controls? That's the only way to get meritocracy. The system is set up so the casino wins. You cannot, with a straight face, argue the odds are in your favor, but there are rules about how the casino works, both formal and informal. When a casino only investigates cases where someone wins $1 million on the slots, to see if there's a fault in the system, while never investigatin…

I think what he's saying is if a corporation has a genuine need of some high specialist in a skill, and no American has that skill - then okay, such is life - bring in a foreign worker. But corporations have abused the system to unnecessarily employ immigrant labor in lieu of American, because immigrant workers not only tend to earn well below market wages (which is supposed to be illegal), but also tend to be far mo…

> I think what he's saying is if a corporation has a genuine need of some high specialist in a skill, and no American has that skill - then okay, such is life - bring in a foreign worker.

I don't think so, as that would be a silly point to make. I mean, it's absurd to assume a hiring round should't extend offers to other candidates if current applicants can just barely meet the hiring bar. This is a contrived scenario intended to rationalize excluding better candidates on technicalities that only serve the interest of low-skilled, low-competence applicants that can't compete.

And by the way, I've worked with my fair share of US emigrants, both veterans and juniors fresh out of college, and I would hardly describe them as raising the hiring bar. Nevertheless it would be colossally stupid to argue they should have not been considered for the position just because they were foreigners.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#837

Post by noelwelsh »

conductr wrote: post #223
hvb2 wrote: post #15

So for those that don't know, it's quite common for a visa renewal to be required to leave the country. Depending on the visa, you might have to do this every year. So just imagine, having a normal job in the US and you're asked to leave to renew your visa and this stuff happens. That's no more appointment, not even a new date and you're now very likely unable to work and possibly can't even enter the country to get…

Not trying to make a political point at all and perhaps a controversial take. But, it’s specifically and maybe implicitly by design. Meaning they made this way precisely so you have to reapply so they can change their mind or block you out later. Nothing about getting a visa is permanent and you’re fully at risk when you move here with that type of status. If you evaluate the situation that’s always been the case.

There is a difference between what is legal and what is moral. If you think that there is no difference you also hold that slavery was moral up until the time it was illegal (and you might then wonder why abolitionists campaigned against a moral act.) Similarly, the visa system may have always had this uncertainty but that does not mean it is moral, or that it is moral to use it in this way.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#838

Post by coderenegade »

autumnstwilight wrote: post #679
coderenegade wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely not. I know Japan and Korea had a similar process when I was living there, and I was under the impression that most places operate this way. Your visa grants you right to temporarily stay in the country, and if you don't have a visa you have no right to be there. Sometimes there's a bridging visa to cover the gap, but a country isn't under any obligation to provide one.

I've renewed my visa in Japan a bunch of times, including changing work category or visa status, and never had to leave the country for it. It's not standard for working or student visas, though you would have to leave if you were switching from a tourist visa to a different category.

Maybe it was for switching visa types. It was almost 20 years ago, so I may have some of the details mixed up.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#839

Post by inemesitaffia »

noelwelsh wrote: post #837
conductr wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to make a political point at all and perhaps a controversial take. But, it’s specifically and maybe implicitly by design. Meaning they made this way precisely so you have to reapply so they can change their mind or block you out later. Nothing about getting a visa is permanent and you’re fully at risk when you move here with that type of status. If you evaluate the situation that’s always been the case.

There is a difference between what is legal and what is moral. If you think that there is no difference you also hold that slavery was moral up until the time it was illegal (and you might then wonder why abolitionists campaigned against a moral act.) Similarly, the visa system may have always had this uncertainty but that does not mean it is moral, or that it is moral to use it in this way.

Better talk to Bhutan

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#840

Post by coderenegade »

jeeeb wrote: post #791
coderenegade wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely not. I know Japan and Korea had a similar process when I was living there, and I was under the impression that most places operate this way. Your visa grants you right to temporarily stay in the country, and if you don't have a visa you have no right to be there. Sometimes there's a bridging visa to cover the gap, but a country isn't under any obligation to provide one.

No. Japan certainly doesn’t. If you want to renew your visa you go apply at the local immigration department and they mail you your renewal notice a month or two later. No need to leave the country at all.

It was a long time ago, so I might have the details wrong. I suspect it may have been expats from Korea taking a short trip to Japan to renew their visa, or even folks switching the type of visa they were on.
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