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U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

wsj.com

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Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#861

Post by account42 »

hvb2 wrote: post #586
rayiner wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moral issue is the same in both cases: there’s a big sign that says “temporary.” People have chosen to ignore the sign.

No, people are following the rules and politely asking for a renewal in a different country. The issue here is that they're not being denied, the government is basically refusing to make a decision for an indefinite amount of time. I'm assuming most normal cases will get their visas eventually, the question is when. In the meantime the applicant can pay rent in the US, find some place to live abroad and maybe continu…

They are being denied. That's the default state when your visa expires and you have not been granted a new one. What the government is doing is telling people to not bother asking right now because everyone will be denied.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#862

Post by locknitpicker »

somenameforme wrote: post #687
eesmith wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you calling for open border with no controls? That's the only way to get meritocracy. The system is set up so the casino wins. You cannot, with a straight face, argue the odds are in your favor, but there are rules about how the casino works, both formal and informal. When a casino only investigates cases where someone wins $1 million on the slots, to see if there's a fault in the system, while never investigatin…

I think what he's saying is if a corporation has a genuine need of some high specialist in a skill, and no American has that skill - then okay, such is life - bring in a foreign worker. But corporations have abused the system to unnecessarily employ immigrant labor in lieu of American, because immigrant workers not only tend to earn well below market wages (which is supposed to be illegal), but also tend to be far mo…

> I think what he's saying is if a corporation has a genuine need of some high specialist in a skill, and no American has that skill - then okay, such is life - bring in a foreign worker.

I don't think so, as that would be a silly point to make. I mean, it's absurd to assume a hiring round should't extend offers to other candidates if current applicants can just barely meet the hiring bar. This is a contrived scenario intended to rationalize excluding better candidates on technicalities that only serve the interest of low-skilled, low-competence applicants that can't compete.

And by the way, I've worked with my fair share of US emigrants, both veterans and juniors fresh out of college, and I would hardly describe them as raising the hiring bar. Nevertheless it would be colossally stupid to argue they should have not been considered for the position just because they were foreigners.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#863

Post by noelwelsh »

conductr wrote: post #223
hvb2 wrote: post #15

So for those that don't know, it's quite common for a visa renewal to be required to leave the country. Depending on the visa, you might have to do this every year. So just imagine, having a normal job in the US and you're asked to leave to renew your visa and this stuff happens. That's no more appointment, not even a new date and you're now very likely unable to work and possibly can't even enter the country to get…

Not trying to make a political point at all and perhaps a controversial take. But, it’s specifically and maybe implicitly by design. Meaning they made this way precisely so you have to reapply so they can change their mind or block you out later. Nothing about getting a visa is permanent and you’re fully at risk when you move here with that type of status. If you evaluate the situation that’s always been the case.

There is a difference between what is legal and what is moral. If you think that there is no difference you also hold that slavery was moral up until the time it was illegal (and you might then wonder why abolitionists campaigned against a moral act.) Similarly, the visa system may have always had this uncertainty but that does not mean it is moral, or that it is moral to use it in this way.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#864

Post by coderenegade »

autumnstwilight wrote: post #700
coderenegade wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely not. I know Japan and Korea had a similar process when I was living there, and I was under the impression that most places operate this way. Your visa grants you right to temporarily stay in the country, and if you don't have a visa you have no right to be there. Sometimes there's a bridging visa to cover the gap, but a country isn't under any obligation to provide one.

I've renewed my visa in Japan a bunch of times, including changing work category or visa status, and never had to leave the country for it. It's not standard for working or student visas, though you would have to leave if you were switching from a tourist visa to a different category.

Maybe it was for switching visa types. It was almost 20 years ago, so I may have some of the details mixed up.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#865

Post by account42 »

rayiner wrote: post #670
TimorousBestie wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve successfully mangled the definition of xenophobia. “A strong aversion, antipathy, or fear of foreigners.” Simple as. It wouldn’t be wrong if you admitted that you want some degree of xenophobia. But I suppose that sounds even less convincing than your preferred abuse of terminology.

> “A strong aversion, antipathy, or fear of foreigners.” Yes, it's antipathy to foreigners in and of themselves . It's antipathy based on the mere fact that someone is a foreigner by stereotyping them based on nationality. Antipathy based on actual cultural differences.

I think the confusion of "no one should be persecuted for being part of group X" with "no one part of group X should be persecuted" is the root of far left ideology.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#866

Post by inemesitaffia »

noelwelsh wrote: post #863
conductr wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to make a political point at all and perhaps a controversial take. But, it’s specifically and maybe implicitly by design. Meaning they made this way precisely so you have to reapply so they can change their mind or block you out later. Nothing about getting a visa is permanent and you’re fully at risk when you move here with that type of status. If you evaluate the situation that’s always been the case.

There is a difference between what is legal and what is moral. If you think that there is no difference you also hold that slavery was moral up until the time it was illegal (and you might then wonder why abolitionists campaigned against a moral act.) Similarly, the visa system may have always had this uncertainty but that does not mean it is moral, or that it is moral to use it in this way.

Better talk to Bhutan

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#867

Post by coderenegade »

jeeeb wrote: post #817
coderenegade wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely not. I know Japan and Korea had a similar process when I was living there, and I was under the impression that most places operate this way. Your visa grants you right to temporarily stay in the country, and if you don't have a visa you have no right to be there. Sometimes there's a bridging visa to cover the gap, but a country isn't under any obligation to provide one.

No. Japan certainly doesn’t. If you want to renew your visa you go apply at the local immigration department and they mail you your renewal notice a month or two later. No need to leave the country at all.

It was a long time ago, so I might have the details wrong. I suspect it may have been expats from Korea taking a short trip to Japan to renew their visa, or even folks switching the type of visa they were on.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#868

Post by philipallstar »

noelwelsh wrote: post #863
conductr wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to make a political point at all and perhaps a controversial take. But, it’s specifically and maybe implicitly by design. Meaning they made this way precisely so you have to reapply so they can change their mind or block you out later. Nothing about getting a visa is permanent and you’re fully at risk when you move here with that type of status. If you evaluate the situation that’s always been the case.

There is a difference between what is legal and what is moral. If you think that there is no difference you also hold that slavery was moral up until the time it was illegal (and you might then wonder why abolitionists campaigned against a moral act.) Similarly, the visa system may have always had this uncertainty but that does not mean it is moral, or that it is moral to use it in this way.

Who said it was moral?

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#869

Post by achenet »

yodsanklai wrote: post #396
overfeed wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just rate their performance. And everybody is paid the same. For some visa classes, the law says you should hire an American citizen if they can do the job - not if they rank first at whiteboards or fizz-buzz. > If tomorrow you were to tell (let say) Google they now need to hire only US citizens, would they lower their hiring bar Does it really matter? To a point, obviously, but a lot of people are good enough fo…

> not if they rank first at whiteboards or fizz-buzz. As an interviewer, I don't rank candidates. I have my set of questions, some candidates solve them, others don't. You can argue that it's the bar to do your job properly. Should politicians tell big tech companies what's the bar for being a successful SWE? > When it comes to national interest, the argument for "meritocracy" falls apart quickly. A lot of US tech ex…

> A lot of US tech exists because of skilled foreign workers. I'm not sure what would be the tech industry without them.

Relevant historical footnotes: The Manhattan Project [0], where an international team of scientists and engineers built the world's first atomic bomb.

Operation Paperclip [1] where Nazi scientists and engineers were hired by the US government to work on the space program, amongst other things.

and of course, there's this Andrew Grove guy, [2] who convinced the tech industry to obsessively focus on KPIs, for better or worse.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Grove

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#870

Post by TrackerFF »

motbus3 wrote: post #837

Genuine question for any american fellows: Is this a real problem ? Is this a really a priority problem in your pov ? If if is why ? In my country, we do have a policy of integrating people quite early on if they come from a fragile situation and for other people if they have jobs and can sustain themselves it is a bonus as they contribute with taxes and will have basically no benefits like retirement. I am not makin…

So here's the deal with the current admin:

The figureheads (Trump and others) are the least qualified populists imaginable, who have no business governing anything. They have zero ambition solving big problems, and have rather managed to get the US bogged down in a war with Iran, trade wars, and what have you. Trump is more concerned with the ballroom and the Kennedy center, than fixing anything of substance.

But working in the background, you have extremely goal oriented people trying to implement changes outlined in Project 2025.

So there are essentially two admins working in parallel.

On top of that, conservative media is working like a propaganda machine to filter what the MAGA base sees. Unpopular or head scratching news never make it to prime time, while the culture war nonsense is aired 24/7.

And frankly, Trump is not concerned what non-MAGA, or left leaning voters see. The current admin is concerned with convincing their base to keep voting for them, while doing everything in their power to make it harder or more chaotic for centrist and left leaning voters to vote.

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