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Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#101

Post by reeredfdfdf »

gigatexal wrote: post #46
dgunay wrote: post #21

I have immense respect for the incredible work that the Asahi team does, but at the rate that Intel and AMD have been catching up on power efficiency I wonder whether anyone will really _have_ to run Linux on M series laptops. There was a clear case for it back when Apple silicon absolutely dominated anything else you could buy but with Panther Lake I'm not so sure that Apple's lead will continue to be big enough to…

Even if amd or intel caught up the Apple hardware is just built better and is far higher quality.

Higher-end Thinkpads are pretty nice in terms of build quality. Trackpads and screens are worse, but they will physically last just as long.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#102

Post by Gud »

euio757 wrote: post #26
dgunay wrote: post #21

I have immense respect for the incredible work that the Asahi team does, but at the rate that Intel and AMD have been catching up on power efficiency I wonder whether anyone will really _have_ to run Linux on M series laptops. There was a clear case for it back when Apple silicon absolutely dominated anything else you could buy but with Panther Lake I'm not so sure that Apple's lead will continue to be big enough to…

But, power efficiency isn't the primary reason I'd like Apple hardware with linux software. Display quality, trackpad quality, overall form factor, and very high RAM space in a laptop would be the primary reasons I'd go with Asahi Linux.

I agree.

I’ve been a big Lenovo fan, settled on the X1 carbon. I’ve had three of them, G5, G6 and G9. The USB-C port broke on both G6 and G9 models. Apparently it’s a common problem. Unfortunately the ports are soldered directly on the motherboard making it difficult to fix(should be a small separate board for easy replacement). I was going to desolder and replace the ports, but haven’t gotten around to it.

I’m now using a MacBook Pro M2.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#103

Post by danw1979 »

Gud wrote: post #102
euio757 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, power efficiency isn't the primary reason I'd like Apple hardware with linux software. Display quality, trackpad quality, overall form factor, and very high RAM space in a laptop would be the primary reasons I'd go with Asahi Linux.

I agree. I’ve been a big Lenovo fan, settled on the X1 carbon. I’ve had three of them, G5, G6 and G9. The USB-C port broke on both G6 and G9 models. Apparently it’s a common problem. Unfortunately the ports are soldered directly on the motherboard making it difficult to fix(should be a small separate board for easy replacement). I was going to desolder and replace the ports, but haven’t gotten around to it. I’m now u…

Ummm if repairability is a concern, I’ve got some news to share about your new Macbook.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#104

Post by brewmarche »

stiray wrote: post #69

I hope they will support M4 soon, I cant stand macos and its desire to be different than everything else by custom keyboard shortcuts etc. After 2 years of usage, I still have issues with basic actions like copy paste. edit: omg, writing this post, i checked if there is some way to use linux shortcuts and there is (Kanesh/KMonad or Karabiner-Elements). Maybe my suffering will finally stop.

Aren’t the shortcuts with the command key older than the PC ones (which started out as Shift+Insert etc. actually)? I wouldn’t call that desire to be different (also as mentioned below it has a lot of advantages in a terminal)

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#105

Post by danw1979 »

hiire wrote: post #74
strbean wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: OSX has the only sane copy paste shortcuts. The linux standard of "sometimes ctrl-c/v, sometimes shift-ctrl-c/v, and if you mess up you might kill your task" is preposterous.

The command key really has to be my favorite thing about OSX, it lets you do system things without intercepting whatever is going on in the terminal. It also leaves the ctrl key with barely any use, so you can just customize its behavior (for example, I have ctrl+opt+some letter keys assigned to different desktops/spaces, that works great for me)

My favourite thing about the command key is the position - it’s way further to the right than ctrl on most keyboards, which means you don’t have to contort your thumb back and apply lateral pressure to your thumb joint when copy-pasting.

I’m either doing it wrong on Windows or the entire world is putting up with unnecessary finger pain because whoever chose Ctrl-C was a masochist.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#106

Post by selfhoster1312 »

hnaccount_rng wrote: post #86
selfhoster1312 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, that's a fair data point. Although i'm sure it depends on actual user workloads. I'm not saying that I support closed-source firmware, locked bootloaders, or even that replacing SSDs is the one true path to sustainability. I believe it's a whole field and we shouldn't tolerate compromises on any level. It should be 100% illegal in any civilized country to sell the kind of lame hardware we have today. It shoul…

You have trade offs though. Both with added effort during the development but also just physical limits with the amount of additional losses you have over clicked vs soldered connections

That's true. I can't say i'm 100% against soldering parts, that would be silly. What concerns me is that undocumented parts that are unavailable to buy as spare parts are soldered and have firmware that enforces pairing with a specific other part.

It would be reasonable if all components on a motherboard had to be sold as spare parts by law (not just the entire board that costs the same as the entire device, that's malicious compliance) and all spec sheets were made available. That might just make the economy of a repair shop work again.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#107

Post by kmarc »

monegator wrote: post #72
gigatexal wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if amd or intel caught up the Apple hardware is just built better and is far higher quality.

i snatched a lenovo yoga slim aura with a core 5 226 for 650 euro. Its build quality is on par if not better than the colleague's macbook, it's pretty good for working, runs fedora natively, battery last at least 12 hours unless i'm playing games.

I'm a bit opponent of Apple's walled garden, but the build quality of this laptop is quite far away from a MacBook... Except the display, this OLED WXHQwhatever is stunning.

Source: I bought the same (with core i7, so it's performant, etc.).

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#108

Post by a96 »

kalleboo wrote: post #77
selfhoster1312 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OS LTS support barely matters when planned obsolescence is baked in at the hardware level. Wearing parts (eg. SSD) are soldered on newer macs and there's intensive efforts to make sure even if you have the tools you can't repair it. Parts aren't available but if you get your hands on there's cryptographic parts pairing so it more or less can't be replaced: https://rossmanngroup.com/services/ssd-data-recovery/macbook.…

My MacBook Pro M1 is 5 years old now and the SSD wear level is at 4%. SSD wear is not a problem for normal users. Meanwhile Apple's standard OS support period is 7 years, that's a much more imminent limit. Not saying that I support non-user-replaceable SSDs, but if your goal is reducing e-waste, there are more impactful changes to make.

The thing about SSD failures is that in normal use, you can't wear one out. But in perfectly normal use, some of the units just die after N years (for very small number N in some cases). They don't warn. They don't show increased fault or wear counters. They just die and completely disappear from the bus and stop accepting any commands. There is no recovery and, I repeat, no warning.

That's why you have backups and drives are easy to replace, though reinstall/restore can be tedious.

Unless it's a soldered in one.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#109

Post by a96 »

stiray wrote: post #69

I hope they will support M4 soon, I cant stand macos and its desire to be different than everything else by custom keyboard shortcuts etc. After 2 years of usage, I still have issues with basic actions like copy paste. edit: omg, writing this post, i checked if there is some way to use linux shortcuts and there is (Kanesh/KMonad or Karabiner-Elements). Maybe my suffering will finally stop.

Or the more usual argument: Macos is broken in many ways and you're not allowed to fix it. But you can install some kind of add-on that will sit between you and the broken-as-designed UI and makes it look non-broken.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

#110

Post by oblio »

regexorcist wrote: post #57
oblio wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wait several years for full Linux hardware compatibility I'm not convinced it's only "several years". Asahi was launched in January 2021. So 5 and a half years ago. Asahi, as far as I can tell, supports most of M1 and M2 features, so generations launched in November 2020 (6 years ago) and June 2022 (4 years ago). I would be very surprised if a decade from now the story won't still be the same thing: 90% of features…

> 90% of features for systems half a decade old This can be a good tradeoff. An M1 Ultra still runs circles around 90% of consumer hardware sold today, and with Linux it has easily another 10+ years. Now support for M3 is coming. > Asahi is doing incredible work but it's still 5 people in a garage vs the huge corporation. Not sure why the "vs" scenario, this is a project that makes no promises. And I think they do ha…

> Not sure why the "vs" scenario, this is a project that makes no promises. And I think they do have some support from Fedora / Red Hat fwiw.

They are building something in an environment that's not supportive of what they're doing. Contrast with Intel or AMD.

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