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U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

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Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#571

Post by Solstafir »

Georgelemental wrote: post #525
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #345

My company has a H-1B guy that travelled home to India a few months ago and since then can't come back because the next date he can get with the US embassy is next year. Seems he may get stuck even longer... I am to some degree on board with keeping a closer eye on immigration, but the way the current administration does it feels intentionally cruel. The guy at my company has a house, wife, and kids in the US; his vi…

An H-1B is a temporary non-immigrant visa. You're not supposed to rely on it to build a life in the US with no backup plan; that was never the intent of the law. However, successive administrations ignored the intent of the law, for so long that people began to rely on assurances that the law never promised. Now that the law is getting applied properly, those people are facing the consequences. It sucks for them, but…

It is always possible to make rules stricter for the new applicants. While there was some complaints with visa price hikes, they were for new visas so it was okay. Denying existing legal visa holders entry or time to wrap things up doesn't seem bad to you? These are not criminals per say.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#572

Post by throwaway85825 »

preg_match wrote: post #485
throwaway85825 wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without immigration lowering wages more citizens would be able to afford having children. > Diversity is what makes the US the US. Is this meant as a joke? I can't tell, but it is completely ahistorical. The foundera wrote about their demographic intention extensively.

The founders were, themselves, immigrants. From multiple different countries. Of course racism existed when the founding father's were alive, we had slavery. But, from the beginning, the US has been a country founded on immigration and racial diversity. Yes, we did not, at the time, consider black Americans Americans. But we certainly do now, and have for a very long time. I'm also not convinced immigration lowers wa…

George Washington was the 4th generation of his family in america. He and his community has deep roots in america and did not consider themselves immigrants. The American nation existed before the revolution and was a precondition for such.

Only supply a demand economic denialists cannot understand than an increase in the supply of something leads to falling prices.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#573

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #568
Georgelemental wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An immigrant who has followed due process is equivalent to a homeless person who has convinced the property owner to willingly let the homeless person stay in the property owner's living room. The property owner is allowed to change their mind about the arrangement at any point, unless and until the person obtains part ownership of the property (citizenship).

The property owner in this case is the American people, who I'm pretty sure don't support this. They may have hired a property manager, but if the manager goes rogue, what the owners say is more important.

OK but that's a much different argument from "the cruelty is the point".

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#574

Post by hvb2 »

15155 wrote: post #566
scoofy wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the point isn't that "Leave to renew" is some kind of horrible policy. Such bad-fucking-faith on display everywhere. The point is maybe signal to people that we will soon be pausing all visa renewals so people who trivially have good jobs and good records know they ought to literally just plan on moving out of their apartment rather than have to deal with paying thousands of dollars to have someone else move t…

[flagged]

> The terms were clear, visas are a privilege and not a right or automatic entitlement.

They are. Yet can you tell me why you would need to pause all processing in order to retrain your people? Surely they do training all the time without pausing processing.

Your passport is a right too, you wouldn't mind if they paused that request with no indication of when they might resume? And that's including when you're abroad and lost yours. If that happens to you, you'll happily hold the same position?

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#575

Post by debatem1 »

rayiner wrote: post #490
baby_souffle wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The moral issue is the same in both cases: there’s a big sign that says “temporary.” People have chosen to ignore the sign. No. Your analogy works well solely for the concept of temporary authorization. If you're offering up 2h parking as proof that the moral stakes are equivalent...

The moral issue is defined by the nature of the rule, not the stakes for someone who has transgressed. Enforcing the rule doesn’t become less legitimate just because someone has invested more in breaking it.

Why is that how the moral issue is defined? Seems to me the moral issue is the stakes, and I have no idea why I would cede that judgement to you. What's your basis for claiming moral authority? If you don't, please show your homework: what strange anticonsequentialism underlies your claims, and why should I agree with it?

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#576

Post by alexgoodhart »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #345

My company has a H-1B guy that travelled home to India a few months ago and since then can't come back because the next date he can get with the US embassy is next year. Seems he may get stuck even longer... I am to some degree on board with keeping a closer eye on immigration, but the way the current administration does it feels intentionally cruel. The guy at my company has a house, wife, and kids in the US; his vi…

“Feels intentionally cruel”?

Where have you been? There is so much evidence of the deliberate cruelty that it beggars belief you’d say that.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#577

Post by GeneralMayhem »

15155 wrote: post #481
scoofy wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, anyone who is still defending this administration isn't even trying to have a conversation in good faith. I have a Republican friend who appreciates the Supreme Court Justices, and then suddenly has zero clue about any news story involving the administration, and shrugs off the war. This despite meticulously following Benghazi hearings when it was someone he wanted to dislike. He would rather Trump be Romney,…

> defending this administration "Leave to renew" has been policy for decades.

First, that's not what this is talking about. "Leave to renew" becoming "leave, and you will not be renewed" on a whim is insane, self-destructive cruelty.

But also, it's only been "the policy" since 2004. That's technically "decades", but only just, and it was also introduced for idiotic pretextual reasons. The ostensible reason is that domestic State Department offices don't have the equipment to capture biometric data. Seriously. That's the argument. The law doesn't say "you have to leave to renew", it says "you have to get fingerprinted to renew", and conveniently there's nowhere in the United States that can do that, despite every police station in the country having that equipment at this point.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#578

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #573
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The property owner in this case is the American people, who I'm pretty sure don't support this. They may have hired a property manager, but if the manager goes rogue, what the owners say is more important.

OK but that's a much different argument from "the cruelty is the point".

The legal perspective doesn't preclude that the cruelty is the point.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#579

Post by jmyeet »

hvb2 wrote: post #15

So for those that don't know, it's quite common for a visa renewal to be required to leave the country. Depending on the visa, you might have to do this every year. So just imagine, having a normal job in the US and you're asked to leave to renew your visa and this stuff happens. That's no more appointment, not even a new date and you're now very likely unable to work and possibly can't even enter the country to get…

This administration is clearly on a war against immigration of all sorts but... we need to be accurate here.

This is specifically a pause on immigrant visas. That is, green cards. So this is for family-based green cards and investor green cards through consular processing (ie when out of the country).

As yet, work visas and other nonimmigrant visas are unaffected.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#580

Post by rayiner »

debatem1 wrote: post #575
rayiner wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moral issue is defined by the nature of the rule, not the stakes for someone who has transgressed. Enforcing the rule doesn’t become less legitimate just because someone has invested more in breaking it.

Why is that how the moral issue is defined? Seems to me the moral issue is the stakes, and I have no idea why I would cede that judgement to you. What's your basis for claiming moral authority? If you don't, please show your homework: what strange anticonsequentialism underlies your claims, and why should I agree with it?

Consequentialism in general is a third-world mindset. But in this particular context it leads to the absurd result that someone who breaks the rules more egregiously is rewarded for doing so.
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