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U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

wsj.com

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Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#561

Post by scoofy »

foltik wrote: post #545
15155 wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> defending this administration "Leave to renew" has been policy for decades.

> isn't even trying to have a conversation in good faith. What about the sweeping halt of all legal immigrant visa processing?

Right, the point isn't that "Leave to renew" is some kind of horrible policy. Such bad-fucking-faith on display everywhere.

The point is maybe signal to people that we will soon be pausing all visa renewals so people who trivially have good jobs and good records know they ought to literally just plan on moving out of their apartment rather than have to deal with paying thousands of dollars to have someone else move their shit overseas, just to maybe get their visa renewed right when their shit arrives and they have to do the same thing all over again.

This would literally just helping law-abiding folks follow the law. But no, the cruelty is the point.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#562

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

epistasis wrote: post #248
erkt wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inhumane maybe, but our government should owe its first allegiance to our citizens wellbeing, not imported workers.

How, in any way does this help the wellbeing of a citizen? Why bring up that very strange point, which is completely unconnected to the massive harm here. If anything, these policies harm the citizens of the US in a myriad of ways. There's zero benefit to be had from any of this. Except for the joy tha tthe cruel feel in causing others misery, but that's not citizens, that's just a few sick people.

>There's zero benefit to be had from any of this.

From the article:

"Updated guidance and training were being put in place to ensure that visa applicants don’t become a public charge under U.S. law or depend on government benefits intended for Americans in need, a spokesman for the department said Wednesday."

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#563

Post by nostrebored »

itake wrote: post #544
nostrebored wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked at a few large companies, this was the case at all of them. I do think there is a messy middle of companies built on vibes.

There are 2 issues: 1/ Employment provides training and experience. If the h1bs are given access to the jobs (training and experience), then is it the American's fault that they are no longer considered "best"? 2/ h1b increases labor supply, not the demand. More supply, means lower wages for everyone.

1/ Training is only effective if you can fill the function of the job and learn from it. Many software engineering jobs people claim are stolen by H1B hires are filled by human beings more likely to meet the bar. Many American candidates just don’t. Filling a software role is hard.

2/ Demand for software is not static. Good software drives demand for more engineers in many cases, intra or extra-company. There is probably a non zero rate of wage suppression per marginal h1b currently. But an American economy with no h1b employees could feasibly have a much lower average sde salary. It is not an Econ 101 problem.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#564

Post by BobbyJo »

paxys wrote: post #258
dyauspitr wrote: post #29

50% of all American unicorns were started by immigrants. This is sheer stupidity to prevent the best of what the world has to offer when they are knocking at your door.

The impact on academics and research has already been felt over the last decade. US used to be the default destination for academics and skilled workers from China ever since the cultural revolution. They engrained themselves in the country, studied/worked at top univerities, taught multiple generations of students, did key research, worked at top tech companies, and overall were major contributors to American techno…

You can't ignore the impact of China also becoming a better place to live as well. China is a different place no than it was 20 years ago, and the need to go overseas anywhere is probably felt less today than back then.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#565

Post by rayiner »

lanstin wrote: post #547
rayiner wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American immigration laws are designed to have a small stream of permanent immigration, both to protect american jobs and to protect american culture from foreign influence. That’s what people voted for over decades. The New York Times did a good podcast on the issue. https://youtu.be/xgDdTV7A57w . If you want to define “xenophobic” to encompass that then that’s your choice. I don't think that's a sensible or useful…

I know a lot of people that support these cruel and chaotic changes to our immigration laws and they are mostly xenophobic - they don’t like people speaking languages other than English at the store, they don’t like religions different than their own, they don’t like family traditions different than their own.

Xenophobia is about assuming that people are different because of their national origin. It's not "xenophobia" if there are actual differences, especially if there are actual changes to someone's society. Treating all cultural differences as equally desirable is cultural relativism. Not everyone who rejects cultural relativism is xenophobic. You're allowed to prefer your own culture and to live in a society that reflects your culture. The countries that most immigrants come from treat that principle as axiomatic.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#566

Post by 15155 »

scoofy wrote: post #561
foltik wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> isn't even trying to have a conversation in good faith. What about the sweeping halt of all legal immigrant visa processing?

Right, the point isn't that "Leave to renew" is some kind of horrible policy. Such bad-fucking-faith on display everywhere. The point is maybe signal to people that we will soon be pausing all visa renewals so people who trivially have good jobs and good records know they ought to literally just plan on moving out of their apartment rather than have to deal with paying thousands of dollars to have someone else move t…

[flagged]

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#567

Post by hvb2 »

conductr wrote: post #223
hvb2 wrote: post #15

So for those that don't know, it's quite common for a visa renewal to be required to leave the country. Depending on the visa, you might have to do this every year. So just imagine, having a normal job in the US and you're asked to leave to renew your visa and this stuff happens. That's no more appointment, not even a new date and you're now very likely unable to work and possibly can't even enter the country to get…

Not trying to make a political point at all and perhaps a controversial take. But, it’s specifically and maybe implicitly by design. Meaning they made this way precisely so you have to reapply so they can change their mind or block you out later. Nothing about getting a visa is permanent and you’re fully at risk when you move here with that type of status. If you evaluate the situation that’s always been the case.

The leaving part is not the issue, as you try to immigrate into a country you're subject to the rules that country sets. You're always free to not immigrate into that country (this is not about asylum).

The issue here is that, if you just left the country to do everything the country asked you, you are now in limbo.

For how long? No one can tell.

Does this mean you lose your job? Maybe.

And when you decide it's no longer worth it, you might even have issues getting back in to get your stuff...

Retraining your people CAN be done without it being so disruptive, they chose not to.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#568

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

Georgelemental wrote: post #517
Mutinix wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To equate immigrants who have followed due process to a homeless person insisting on staying in a property owner's living room is appalling. It's understandable for everyone to have varying views on immigration and immigrants, but this sort of rhetoric is a vile, racist and xenophobic dog whistle.

An immigrant who has followed due process is equivalent to a homeless person who has convinced the property owner to willingly let the homeless person stay in the property owner's living room. The property owner is allowed to change their mind about the arrangement at any point, unless and until the person obtains part ownership of the property (citizenship).

The property owner in this case is the American people, who I'm pretty sure don't support this.

They may have hired a property manager, but if the manager goes rogue, what the owners say is more important.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#569

Post by Solstafir »

itake wrote: post #487
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #345

My company has a H-1B guy that travelled home to India a few months ago and since then can't come back because the next date he can get with the US embassy is next year. Seems he may get stuck even longer... I am to some degree on board with keeping a closer eye on immigration, but the way the current administration does it feels intentionally cruel. The guy at my company has a house, wife, and kids in the US; his vi…

I'm an American that lives abroad. I have first-hand experience how other countries treat 'immigrants'. H1B is a temporary non-immigrant visa. I could never imagine myself buying a home in a country where I don't have permanent access to that real estate. I am not opposed to voting to prevent non-PRs from owning real estate in order to keep housing prices lower for residents and prevent non-immigrants from shooting t…

There are arguments from the other side too. Many H1B folks do keep one foot back in the country they are from. But then a lot of backlash on specifically Indian folks for sending most of their salary back home. They know that this is transient state, many of them have rented housing, but still these visas are not like weekly visas, they are for 3 years, people would build somewhat of a life in that time and uprooting them instantly is inhumane indeed.

Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications

#570

Post by Scoundreller »

jimmydorry wrote: post #524
klardotsh wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t think of any other rationale. What, only border officers are able to process a visa renewal? Please. We can have offices inside the country handle this stuff, just like offices handle Trusted Traveler applications and Social Security card issuances. The point is surely to get another chance to grill the immigrant and potentially bar them entry. Other countries don’t always do this: Canada for example has inla…

Canada effectively requires leaving and re-entering. It can take multiple months for an online visa to get processed, meanwhile leaving and reentering takes hours.

there were other dumb factors pushing people to do border runs, like your paperwork says "expired" but your status still being valid while being processed.

Except you had zero paperwork to show to an employer and they had no way to verify themselves. Even if an employer understood the process and accepted some proof that you submitted an application, they would have no idea if you were rejected and became out-of-status.

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