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An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

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Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#151

Post by pocksuppet »

biker142541 wrote: post #23
Aurornis wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says the SFC had a fundraiser and raised over $250,000 to hire a lawyer. There's a confusing part of the article where he says that what he believes is a violation is something that a judge isn't going to care about. I don't know if he's implying that the judges aren't capable of interpreting the AGPL properly, or if he's admitting that the legal argument isn't as solid as they thought it was when they st…

That confused me as well. I interpreted as judges not having (much) precedent and potentially unable/unwilling to interpret along lines of the license intent. But that’s what courts in this process are there for IMO. If a well written license and a good case, then you need to start somewhere to set precedent.

GPL licenses are so much interpreted along lines of license intent that a German judge ruled GPLv2 software couldn't be Tivoized.

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#152

Post by LastTrain »

bonoboTP wrote: post #73
ChuckMcM wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For background, I participated in a "small" action that Sun took against someone who was violating the Java license. The legal fees (in the late 90's) were 8.2 million dollars. $250K is nothing to sneeze at, its a solid 6 weeks of a single lawyer's time, maybe a couple of weeks for a small team. Against a company doing nearly a billion dollars a year in revenue[1] and owning 29% of the printer market? Add in a couple…

Lawyers earn 250k per 6 weeks? More than 2M per year?

Yes. About 5-10% at a big firm earn that.

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#153

Post by mrheosuper »

ramblurr wrote: post #28

Bamboo has been sketch and proprietary since the beginning. It's such a shame to see the maker community get sucked in (though I guess there is precedence wrt Fusion et.al.)

I blame the other 3d printer makers: Anycubic, Ender, Creality, etc.

Bambulab is far from the first player enter the market, or even the "budget" segment, but they still somehow captured it. Only till recently the others begin offering something that can compete with bambu's machine.

Turn out the demand for a good 3d printer, that you only need to do very basic tuning, and does not break your bank account, is very high. Who could've guessed ?

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#154

Post by mrheosuper »

Symbiote wrote: post #65
nomel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people like to use tools to make something possible/easy. Others like the tools themselves. The Bambu printers, at the time of their release, were an incredibly superior pieces of hardware and software that was priced very very well and, this was a really big deal , worked fully right out of the box. It was a pretty clear choice in either dicking around with the tools, or actually using the tool to make things .…

Prusa's printers also worked out of the box. They cost slightly more, and their staff aren't volunteers.

>slightly more

I wouldn't say "50%" is slightly more.

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#155

Post by zlsa »

Palomides wrote: post #128
nomel wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they did not. Calibrating flow and pressure advance was entirely manual. Vibration compensation/input shaping did not exist until 2023 [1], and was also entirely manual. The Pursa XL (only thing remotely comparable) was over double the price [2], with the Core One (Bambu competitor) not coming out until 2024 [2]. Their MMU was a clusterfuck of tinkering [4], so when Bambu released the AMS, people were trying to fi…

if you absolutely needed a huge multi color/material printer, sure, but a prusa i3 mkwhatever was entirely adequate for normal 3d printing out of the box

I have a Prusa i3 Mk3 and a Bambu P1S and I have to disagree. They are in entirely different leagues. The Prusa was a step change improvement from an Ender 3, and the Bambu is a step change from the Prusa i3 Mk3. It definitely depends on what you're printing, but I personally saw all my print failures on the Prusa pretty much go away overnight with Bambu.

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#156

Post by like_any_other »

If the GPL [1] got the same government support as trademark law [2], this violation would not be "ongoing". Why doesn't it? Nominally, the law protects both equally.

[1] I won't say "copyright", because if this was about pirated Marvel movies, it absolutely would be getting the same treatment.

[2] $30K Worth of Multimeters Must Be Destroyed Because They're Yellow - https://news.slashdot.org/story/14/03/19/1721253/30k-worth-o...

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#157

Post by LastTrain »

bonoboTP wrote: post #114
ChuckMcM wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Well they certainly bill at that rate, it goes some to the lawyer, some to rent, etc.

Outrageous cartel then. For such amounts there would be plenty who would have intellectual chops to do the job, driving the price down. Legal costs are nowhere close to this outside the US.

IP litigation is absolutely that expensive, outside the US and inside. Didn’t you just come into this conversation unaware of what IP litigators earn?

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#158

Post by mrheosuper »

asveikau wrote: post #4

It's been pretty weird and disappointing to see the way Bambu has taken over with these practices. If you go on social media where people are talking about 3D printing, a lot of folks are not developers and don't know anything about software licensing. It is hard to explain this problem to them, or why anyone should care. Meanwhile for many of these people, Bambu is totally synonymous with 3D printing. Prusa has attr…

it's hard to convince people to past over bambu when the alternative is either: Crappier (Ender, Creality), or much more expensive (Prusa).

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#159

Post by Ancapistani »

bonoboTP wrote: post #114
ChuckMcM wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Well they certainly bill at that rate, it goes some to the lawyer, some to rent, etc.

Outrageous cartel then. For such amounts there would be plenty who would have intellectual chops to do the job, driving the price down. Legal costs are nowhere close to this outside the US.

Can you imagine how litigious we'd be if legal services were cheaper?

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#160

Post by ChickeNES »

NegativeK wrote: post #147
ChickeNES wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What community? It's a tool.

You can't really spit in the hobby 3d printing world without hitting the community. I have coworkers who talk about their printers, filament choice, what they've printed recently, etc etc. I've been around hackerspaces with that behavior for over a decade, but it spontaneously showed up at work from a shared interest. That community is where open source tech tends to come from.

I know the community well, I was challenging the assertion this hurts the community. On the contrary, better and cheaper printers help the community way more than the worries over software licensing. The average person doesn't care, they want a printer that works and doesn't cost much.
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