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Bill Gates: The turbulent AI era is here

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Re: Bill Gates: The turbulent AI era is here

#241

Post by swed420 »

lanfeust6 wrote: post #235
swed420 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is about consumer products, not government policy. You speak as if these things are unrelated. > Buy an alternative, you have those choices. Increasingly, we don't: "Modern Capitalism Is Weirder Than You Think: It also no longer works as advertised" https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/03/how-asset-managers-h... ( https://archive.is/wSmtd )

> You speak as if these things are unrelated. State the connection, because it seems like your next argument is going to be "the government didn't stop them", as though that's their job. > Increasingly, we don't: Think of a single enshittified product that matters to you for which there is no alternative but to use it. This also all pales in contrast to the conveniences and improvements afforded over time. You can no…

> State the connection, because it seems like your next argument is going to be "the government didn't stop them", as though that's their job.

It's not their job to break up monopolies and ever-shifting financial abstractions a few steps ahead of the law that enable monopolistic behavior?

> Think of a single enshittified product that matters to you for which there is no alternative but to use it.

* Mobile devices and their respective walled gardens if you expect to do something as simple as access your own bank account or reliably receive text messages

* Social media which only really works when lots of people are on any given platform

* Food that is safe, nutritious, and sustainable

> Television sets are now commodities, which tend to be cheaper adjusted for inflation.

Oh neat, they didn't enshitify the legacy propaganda client devices yet. How nice of them, and quite the measure of progress.

Re: Bill Gates: The turbulent AI era is here

#242

Post by red-iron-pine »

ihumanable wrote: post #232
BenzeneDream wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do the gears of capitalism keep turning without UBI in such a scenario? Who is buying from Amazon? Mega yachts don't make the world go round. UBI is how capitalism keeps going, else a new system will be needed. UBI will be given but we should take even more control and take a % of ownership.

We've seen in the K-shaped economy of late a new kind of consumerism. The top 10% of consumers accounted for half of all spending in the second quarter of 2025. Capitalism will happily chug along while leaving a massive number of people desperately poor. There's a reason the AI CEOs have all become obsessed with the concept of a "permanent underclass." If a UBI is ever "given" it will be just enough to keep the under…

> There's a reason the AI CEOs have all become obsessed with the concept of a "permanent underclass.

it's not for nothin that they've been slipping Zachariah 13:8 into discussions that show up in places like 8chan or ssethtzeentech videos

"Declares the LORD: 'in all the land, two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but one-third will be left alive' "

The marketing and agit-prop types would call this "priming" or "conditioning"

Re: Bill Gates: The turbulent AI era is here

#243

Post by red-iron-pine »

lanfeust6 wrote: post #233
Gud wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. The planet is crowded, currently with mostly productive members of society. For the ultra rich psychos who run the show, do you really think they want poor people hanging around? When we can be wiped out in a few months? Consider the pure greed Donald Trump is displaying. Now imagine that the 1000 most powerful people are the same, except they are smart enough to at least not rub it in peoples faces on li…

Motivated reasoning. You want to believe it. > do you really think they want poor people hanging around? Which by your rationale would include everyone who isn't rich (and tautologically would mean "no one is rich anymore"). They do not care whether we're hanging around, the same way they do not care now whether poor people exist. It has no bearing. All that does is whether they remain rich and powerful, and last I c…

want to believe it? mon ami have you looked at any labor history?

they used to send 9 year olds to the mines. mortality rates were as high as 50% before they turned 20.

why do you think the AI robber barons are any nicer? it is painfully obvious they're not. and all of this is set to a backdrop of global ecological collapse.

Re: Bill Gates: The turbulent AI era is here

#244

Post by mhitza »

Gud wrote: post #198
swed420 wrote: post #12

> Instead, solutions should be developed through a public democratic process that includes elected officials, policymakers, educators, health workers, local officials, and community leaders. Millions of people will have their lives disrupted, and we’ll need a stronger, more flexible social safety net to help them manage the transition. Local communities are already raising concerns about the energy and water needed f…

Not everywhere. Switzerland has a direct democracy, which should be emulated by the rest of the world. https://www.aboutswitzerland.eda.admin.ch/en/direct-democrac... FWIW I am not from Switzerland, I only live there. Direct democracy works great.

Use of the term of direct democracy feels dilution in that case. It is a significant step in that direction, though for me (and wikipedia) direct democracy is without the middleman. Switzerland still has parties, elected government and so forth, no?

If someone else hasn't given a thought yet to Liquid Democracy, I propose they give it a couple of minutes of imaginary thought https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_democracy

For some real world data there are some studies about (I think) German branch of the Pirate Party using it in internal decision making and there is interesting insight for those curious.

It be nice if we all where allowed to vote on particular laws if interested, and defer certain topics to our delegated experts. (Chat Control for example, would be a non issue then.)

The technology for that approach has been mature enough since the rise of social media and private crypto currencies (as a means of electronic private vote, particularly around usage of smart contracts for delegation). What about the interest and spreading of these ideas? Pretty limited, to non-existent. Some people like to follow leaders, though naturally wouldn't expect it to be the silent majority.

Re: Bill Gates: The turbulent AI era is here

#245

Post by red-iron-pine »

buellerbueller wrote: post #117
sophrosyne42 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really takes a lot of magical thinking to believe we can just implement UBI without any costs. Notice that when you open your mouth, there is no roast chicken that flies in.

Total federal entitlement spending in the USA, per capita, is roughly $11,000 annually. Once could kill all those programs and start there.

there was a professor in SoCal who was a big fan of what he called Libertarian UBI -- we have an insane amount of qaulification for programs -- must be a certain age, certain condition, must prove that condition consistently, etc. etc.

abandon that entire apperatus and just cut people a check.

even glenn beck called it out w/ obamacare -- "if total spending is $3million per person [it wasn't, btw], then why not just cut every person a check?"

Re: Bill Gates: The turbulent AI era is here

#246

Post by red-iron-pine »

atmavatar wrote: post #159
hydrogen7800 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think UBI can ever happen in the US. There is a moral imperative of "industriousness". Keynes' prediction (or maybe desire) ~100 years ago of the 15 hour workweek never panned out.

In the US, you're at least as likely to have half the population vote that anyone who cannot find a job should be exterminated, despite a large proportion of those voting for it being the very people most likely to become jobless, because Fox News will convince them it will mostly affect immigrants and/or some other group they're supposed to hate.

this phenomenon is not limited to the US

see also: the German far right pending a takeover, or like, half of all politics in India

Re: Bill Gates: The turbulent AI era is here

#247

Post by red-iron-pine »

psadauskas wrote: post #204
nextaccountic wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know who are financially well-off but completely fall apart when there is no visible professional hierarchy to give them meaning. This reminds me of white people in the American south that didn't personally own slaves, but fought in the civil war anyway to maintain their place in the social hierarchy https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/67fvaf/comme... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/f9…

And that hasn't changed at all: “If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.” ― Lyndon B. Johnson

LJB was talking about the grandkids of those civil war types

Re: Bill Gates: The turbulent AI era is here

#248

Post by red-iron-pine »

arretevad wrote: post #239
seydor wrote: post #76

- If AI and robots are as good as Bill suggests , one can infer that AI will signal the end of cities, at least the end of megacities. If the home robot can clean and cook and also do my taxes, hair, and diagnose my health , one is more likely to escape unemployment by moving to a small town where he can find land and resources, and use robots to exploit them, just like humans have always done when economy was based…

> If there is no longer a reason for people to live close together, decentralization is the most likely outcome. Many people like living next to other people purely for social reasons.

why do you think a bot can't replace that, either?

given all of the issues with people getting attached to their online girlfriend -- it's already happening

Re: Bill Gates: The turbulent AI era is here

#249

Post by Obscurity4340 »

foobarian wrote: post #181
debo_ wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support UBI and wealth taxes, but I also think generally that will be a difficult transition in terms of social upheaval. There are so many people I know who are financially well-off but completely fall apart when there is no visible professional hierarchy to give them meaning. One would hope that this would still go down better than destituting large percentages of the world population, but I wonder.

Wonder if there should be a "UBI reservation" set up where everyone gets it, and very basic needs like housing and food are taken care of in a self-sustaining manner with machines. (which is the whole premise, everything is automated so nobody needs to work). Then people who don't like the freeloading can opt out and live as usual, and those who like it can move to the reservation.

Weird and cute how you think you're one of the good, special ones that wont have their value or status affected by whats coming. Im sure you 'll come out on top, thats always what happens for the "industrious"...

Re: Bill Gates: The turbulent AI era is here

#250

Post by mondrian »

mhitza wrote: post #244
Gud wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everywhere. Switzerland has a direct democracy, which should be emulated by the rest of the world. https://www.aboutswitzerland.eda.admin.ch/en/direct-democrac... FWIW I am not from Switzerland, I only live there. Direct democracy works great.

Use of the term of direct democracy feels dilution in that case. It is a significant step in that direction, though for me (and wikipedia) direct democracy is without the middleman. Switzerland still has parties, elected government and so forth, no? If someone else hasn't given a thought yet to Liquid Democracy, I propose they give it a couple of minutes of imaginary thought https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_democ…

Switzerland still has parties and a senate but the people can veto any law and the people can amend the constitution. This arguably is a sensible balance as it’s probably not tenable for the people to legislate full-time. Representatives can legislate and the people will override them when they disagree.
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