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An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

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Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#71

Post by dspillett »

Symbiote wrote: post #65
nomel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people like to use tools to make something possible/easy. Others like the tools themselves. The Bambu printers, at the time of their release, were an incredibly superior pieces of hardware and software that was priced very very well and, this was a really big deal , worked fully right out of the box. It was a pretty clear choice in either dicking around with the tools, or actually using the tool to make things .…

Prusa's printers also worked out of the box. They cost slightly more, and their staff aren't volunteers.

More than slightly more, certainly when comparing like-for-like, particularly when considering multi-material features.

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#72

Post by hamdingers »

simooooo wrote: post #67
hamdingers wrote: post #15

For current owners who want to avoid Bambu's servers entirely, consider LAN mode with OrcaSlicer and this open source reverse engineered networking plugin: https://github.com/ClusterM/open-bamboo-networking I have verified that my P2S in LAN mode never attempts to make external connections at all (blocked it anyway, of course) and OrcaSlicer + this plugin never attempts to connect to any of Bambu's servers. My P2S is…

Is it faster to send prints than using the cloud Bambu service?

I only sent one test print through Bambu so I can't make a comparison, but it's Speed is not why I set my printer up this way though. I live in a state that may ban 3D printers unless they include invasive surveillance, so I wanted to get a high end pre-ban printer in case that becomes law.

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#73

Post by bonoboTP »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #40
Aurornis wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says the SFC had a fundraiser and raised over $250,000 to hire a lawyer. There's a confusing part of the article where he says that what he believes is a violation is something that a judge isn't going to care about. I don't know if he's implying that the judges aren't capable of interpreting the AGPL properly, or if he's admitting that the legal argument isn't as solid as they thought it was when they st…

For background, I participated in a "small" action that Sun took against someone who was violating the Java license. The legal fees (in the late 90's) were 8.2 million dollars. $250K is nothing to sneeze at, its a solid 6 weeks of a single lawyer's time, maybe a couple of weeks for a small team. Against a company doing nearly a billion dollars a year in revenue[1] and owning 29% of the printer market? Add in a couple…

Lawyers earn 250k per 6 weeks? More than 2M per year?

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#74

Post by ChuckMcM »

snapcaster wrote: post #52
ChuckMcM wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was really depressing when I realized that people will buy a sketchy product which is hurting the community and makers of non-sketchy products because "its cheaper and its not like my purchase is gonna change things one way or another." It is selfish and short sighted, and it leaves their future impoverished, but in the moment they "got a good deal."

Is the product sketchy or just their practices from your point of view? I think a valid view (not saying it's right) of this is: "some dorks in a country I don't inhabit gave away valuable code. I'm going to use it and I don't particularly care about what they think about it" How much do you care about Chinese law? does that make you sketchy?

Inevitably the situation is the "sketch" here is that the vendor avoids a cost by creatively interpreting the requirements. It became famously difficult to buy a reliable PC power supply at one point because PSU vendors were all trying to cut costs and undercut each other. When there isn't a lot of market differentiation features, people differentiate on price. At NetApp we got more and more prescriptive in our contracts with motherboard OEMs because they would do silly things like "leave off 1/2 the bypass capacitors" which would then cause the filer to fail in some environments. And I get that "its just business"

It's an easy thing to avoid the costs associated with complying with FOSS licenses because they FOSS people don't come after you. So instead of having a person on staff who is making sure the company is compliant and updating the web site with source as it changes etc etc. You just don't do any of that and not only do you save money not paying that person you don't have to bother the web site people every time you do a software update. So from a manufacturer's perspective it's a win.

That said, Chinese vendors selling to Chinese customers following Chinese law. All good. Chinese vendors selling to US customers and not following US law, that's bad. I don't see how Chinese law would be part of that discussion.

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#75

Post by ChuckMcM »

bonoboTP wrote: post #73
ChuckMcM wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For background, I participated in a "small" action that Sun took against someone who was violating the Java license. The legal fees (in the late 90's) were 8.2 million dollars. $250K is nothing to sneeze at, its a solid 6 weeks of a single lawyer's time, maybe a couple of weeks for a small team. Against a company doing nearly a billion dollars a year in revenue[1] and owning 29% of the printer market? Add in a couple…

Lawyers earn 250k per 6 weeks? More than 2M per year?

Yes. Well they certainly bill at that rate, it goes some to the lawyer, some to rent, etc.

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#76

Post by hamdingers »

qwerpy wrote: post #34
hamdingers wrote: post #15

For current owners who want to avoid Bambu's servers entirely, consider LAN mode with OrcaSlicer and this open source reverse engineered networking plugin: https://github.com/ClusterM/open-bamboo-networking I have verified that my P2S in LAN mode never attempts to make external connections at all (blocked it anyway, of course) and OrcaSlicer + this plugin never attempts to connect to any of Bambu's servers. My P2S is…

LAN mode works well with home assistant and some HACS Bambu integration. Takes some setup but then you get real time camera feed and all the nice sensors for temp, humidity, including any AMS you have. I connected mine to Bambu server for the app just to see what it does, and my home assistant setup still works over LAN. Great printers and for now offline modes work well.

Probably this one: https://github.com/greghesp/ha-bambulab

It's excellent for monitoring and setting up automations around printer events, I use it all the time too.

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#77

Post by ChickeNES »

Aurornis wrote: post #18
ChuckMcM wrote: post #6

I think the Bambu case is a good one to litigate the AGPL but perhaps should start in the Court of International Trade. That court has the power to block imports as part of a TRO which would shut down a lot of their revenue from the US at least. Doing something similar in Europe would also help apply pressure. Takes lawyers and money though, of which there is certainly not enough of the latter. Not to be too glib her…

The article says the SFC had a fundraiser and raised over $250,000 to hire a lawyer. There's a confusing part of the article where he says that what he believes is a violation is something that a judge isn't going to care about. I don't know if he's implying that the judges aren't capable of interpreting the AGPL properly, or if he's admitting that the legal argument isn't as solid as they thought it was when they st…

I guess I need to buy another printer to fund the other side?

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#78

Post by m4rtink »

dofm wrote: post #56
eknkc wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which alternatives?

Depends on the niche and application you are interested in. Though I would caveat my assertion by saying that if the specific form factor of the A1 Mini (which is a nice thing) matters to you, and it well might, there’s probably no alternative for that single machine, to be fair. But I would still choose something else. Personally I think the “just works” 3D printer is largely the result of cognitive bias. It’s a mac…

Yeah - we have 4 printers at the moment, one of them a Prusa MK3S+ & it has been maintenance free so far.

The other printers are basically custom designs by this point & you need to fix things sometimes - like recently erosion of the filament eationg away enough of the idler arm to slip from the forwarding wheel. But I don't mind, because I can easily fix all of that with either 3D printed bits or easily & cheaply available common parts.

I don't mind because I know I can fix ynathing on those printers! No issues like with 2D printers with closed firmware that worksa against you to print secret dots, only accepts locked down blessed overpriced consumables & fails to print if only one color runs low. Not to mention the bloody thing is basically unfixable & any drivers already suck + they will drop support on a whim anyway.

Seriously, would rather fix the 3D printer after every print than to deal with the level of bulshit common on 2D printers - and ot seems to me that Bambu is trying to achieve exactly that!

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#79

Post by ChickeNES »

dspillett wrote: post #71
Symbiote wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prusa's printers also worked out of the box. They cost slightly more, and their staff aren't volunteers.

More than slightly more, certainly when comparing like-for-like, particularly when considering multi-material features.

It's a worse printer too. Not to mention overpriced since it's built in the EU

Re: An ongoing 3D-printer AGPL violation

#80

Post by ChickeNES »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #45
ramblurr wrote: post #28

Bamboo has been sketch and proprietary since the beginning. It's such a shame to see the maker community get sucked in (though I guess there is precedence wrt Fusion et.al.)

It was really depressing when I realized that people will buy a sketchy product which is hurting the community and makers of non-sketchy products because "its cheaper and its not like my purchase is gonna change things one way or another." It is selfish and short sighted, and it leaves their future impoverished, but in the moment they "got a good deal."

What community? It's a tool.
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