Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice • Hacker News Board

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#51

Post by AlexandrB » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 8:45 PM UTC

LaGrange wrote: post #28

indiecore wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because it made the subjects want to eat more. There's no magic bullet for gaining or losing weight, you either eat more or less that your body needs.

It's funny, how you first said there's no magic bullet, then provided everyone with a magic bullet.

Controlling calorie intake is hardly a magic bullet. That's like saying exercise is the magic bullet for gaining muscle or studying is a magic bullet for passing exams.

A magic bullet in this case would be something that allowed weight reduction with no restriction of calories. From experience, restricting calories long-term is very difficult.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#52

Post by MichaelGG » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 8:46 PM UTC

patrickgzill wrote: post #35

It is interesting to consider that periodic fasts and/or abstaining from certain foods for a time (such as Lent during the Orthodox calendar), seen in many religions, might have a health benefit by suppressing certain gut bacteria, or at least managing gut flora.

Is it actually interesting? Even the rules were chosen randomly, you'd expect any large body of rules to get something by sheer chance alone.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#53

Post by Steqheu » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 8:49 PM UTC

splatcollision wrote: post #18

Gut bacteria are an extremely powerful system within our bodies and are mostly still mysterious to us. Imbalances of one type or another lead to large amounts of bacterial toxins being introduced to the intestine and the bloodstream, with wide-ranging mental and physical effects. I'm not surprised that contribution to obesity is among them. It works kind of like this: You eat too much refined/processed food, that is…

This is one of the first times I've heard such a confident voice of reason regarding this topic in such a liberal atmosphere. Thank you.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#54

Post by checker » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 8:51 PM UTC

splatcollision wrote: post #18

Gut bacteria are an extremely powerful system within our bodies and are mostly still mysterious to us. Imbalances of one type or another lead to large amounts of bacterial toxins being introduced to the intestine and the bloodstream, with wide-ranging mental and physical effects. I'm not surprised that contribution to obesity is among them. It works kind of like this: You eat too much refined/processed food, that is…

Forgive my naivete (I have a passing knowledge about diet), but isn't 'complex polysaccharides' more or less a synonym for 'complex carbohydrates' (excluding oligosaccharides)? I feel that most readily available refined/processed food is low in complex carbs since the processing breaks them down, and because simple carbs are cheaper and taste better.

Essentially my question is this: A fresh vegetarian diet is going to be high in the complex polysaccharides that you mention. So why are vegetarians statistically thinner than the average population, if these complex polysaccharides are wreaking havoc on their digestive systems?

This whole question breaks down if I'm mistaken about the definition of complex polysaccharide. Thanks.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#55

Post by indiecore » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 8:51 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #50

king_jester wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't care if someone is fat. What I care about is the loons saying that it's healthy and fine to be morbidly obese and they use stuff like this to back it up. Being morbidly obese and healthy? Very unlikely to be true. Morbidly obese and ok with? That's 100% legit, it's your body and you are free to do as you please. > No, it's calories in vs calories out. Maybe these bacteria make you want to eat more, maybe th…

Except we already have strong evidence to suggest that calorie deficit diets do not have a causal relationship with weight loss I don't know if you meant something else here, but of course eating less causes weight loss.

There are people who don't believe that. Every time I hear about it I tell them to get to a physics lab because they are a walking Nobel Prize.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#56

Post by tarice » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 8:53 PM UTC

splatcollision wrote: post #18

Gut bacteria are an extremely powerful system within our bodies and are mostly still mysterious to us. Imbalances of one type or another lead to large amounts of bacterial toxins being introduced to the intestine and the bloodstream, with wide-ranging mental and physical effects. I'm not surprised that contribution to obesity is among them. It works kind of like this: You eat too much refined/processed food, that is…

I've also heard that eating smaller meals, more regularly, can help your body lose weight.

This trend correlates well with the above idea, since smaller meals means that the sugars should be absorbed before the large intestine, thereby further robbing the bacteria of their food.

It would also explain the opposite effect - that eating larger meals makes losing weight harder, since the larger quantity of food has a better chance to get to your large intestine.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#57

Post by sp332 » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 8:53 PM UTC

indiecore wrote: post #55

sp332 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except we already have strong evidence to suggest that calorie deficit diets do not have a causal relationship with weight loss I don't know if you meant something else here, but of course eating less causes weight loss.

There are people who don't believe that. Every time I hear about it I tell them to get to a physics lab because they are a walking Nobel Prize.

Not to mention non-fad weight loss programs like Weight Watchers, and all the starving scrawny people in the world as evidence.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#58

Post by Steqheu » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 8:55 PM UTC

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #26

not_that_noob wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tl;dr: fat guy lost a ton of weight by a diet that reduced a specific kind of gut bacteria; this bacteria inserted into mice engineered to be thin caused the mice to gain weight. Ergo, bacteria may be driving obesity.

So in theory, if a pill was developed to just kill that bacteria, fat guy loses weight.

Maybe big pharma and the food industry knew this the whole time.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#59

Post by LaGrange » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 8:55 PM UTC

indiecore wrote: post #43

LaGrange wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny, how you first said there's no magic bullet, then provided everyone with a magic bullet.

Dieting isn't a magic bullet you fool, it's long, hard and worth it .

Just being hard, or even applicable in some cases, doesn't make it less of a magic bullet when someone suggests it's applicable to a broad problem.

Re: Pathogen from gut of obese human causes obesity in germfree mice

#60

Post by jack-r-abbit » Wed, Dec 19, 2012, 8:57 PM UTC

indiecore wrote: post #37

AsylumWarden wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you are still wrong. I am morbidly obese and struggle with my weight daily. It will kill me in the end but I want to know what you would do when your metabolism is so low that your normal body temperature hangs at around 97.2F and resists being raised even by means of medications and heavy exercise. I'm sorry but when numerous doctors over 20 years all throw their hands up and say they can't help then there is no…

If your condition is as you describe than I'm sorry for you but you're one of like 0.1% of the population (probably less). It's fine, you got dealt a shit hand but you aren't saying that being obese is a healthy lifestyle and the thing is other people are . Everyone I've ever known or read about has gained weight by eating more and lost weight by eating less, again less and more vary from individual to individual but…

> but you aren't saying that being obese is a healthy lifestyle and the thing is other people are.

But this article doesn't appear to be saying that. So your attack in this thread is uncalled for. Generally, people trying to find a solution to obesity (like these people seem to be) are not in the obesity is a healthy lifestyle camp. They appear to be in the obesity is a problem we should look into camp.